Rebroadcast | The Power of Collaboration with Nikki & Nikki

Annie: Well, hey there, Leah.

Leah: Hey there, Annie. How are you doing?

Annie: Well, I'm great because we have exponentialized ourself today. It's not just two of us. We've got four of us here today. We're joined by. Power duo, Nikki and Nikki, and that's Nurse Nikki, Nikki Greenaway, and Nikisha Killings. And we are here today to talk about the power of collaboration. And before we do that, Leah and I are just so happy that they gave us time today because we're recording this on August 31st, which is the last day of Black Breastfeeding Week 2020. And before we get into the content of the episode, we want to hear how great Black Breastfeeding Week was this year, because Leah and I were big fans.

Leah: Definitely. I can't wait to hear. And I'm so excited to have another collab, like another duo with us. So tell us all about it. How did it go for you guys? What were your wins this week?

Nikki: It was so good. It was so good. I'm actually exhausted. It feels like it was kind of a month of Black Breastfeeding Week as I'm trying to think back on everything that happened. Nikki and Nikki did something super exciting on the very last day of Black Breastfeeding Week and that was to announce a directory for Black lactation supporters. And we're super duper excited about, everyone's been talking for years about, we wish we knew how many of us there were and how to reach every one of us and how to, you know, Pulled together opportunities to collaborate. And we just said, you know what, we can make it happen. We can make a directory or database for black lactation supporters to sign up and join and now be all in one central location listed. So we are accessible to each other in the world.
Leah: Do you want to tell us how we're going to find that?

Nikki: Yes. Yes.

Leah: Because I'm like, okay, I'm ready.

Nikki: Yes. The post is pinned on Nikki and Nikki's Facebook page and you can find us in our link tree on our Instagram as well. We'll continue to boost it, post it, share it everywhere. And there's a Bitly link that we'll share with your listeners so that they can access it as well. How's that?
Annie: Excellent. Yeah, we'll put those links in the show notes because, you know, with everyone. Being able to do virtual to some capacity. I think it'll be really great to be able to refer my clients who's expressed a desire to have a visit with someone who looks like them, which we're big fans of. So that's great. This is terrific. And I, I'm also like my mind is is going because I'm going to go in there and I'm going to look for people that to do continuing education. I'm going to look for speakers. I've got so many plans. Like I'm like, yes, a list. And

Leah: Thank you for putting the list together for us. Yes. That makes sense. It's so much easier. That is so awesome. What a neat

Nikki: idea. Thank you. Thank you. You know, we kind of put it together selfishly because we'd like to be able to gather folks who are doing this work for lots of purposes, for connections, for mentorship, for opportunities to work together. But as you see, there's endless possibilities for what to do with having this list at your fingertips. So we're excited to be able to deliver that. There is another thing that we shared, Nikki, do you want to tell them about our pro prep announcement?

Nikki2: Yeah, sure. So we. Okay. From the beginning, like when we started three years ago, we had talked about pro prep, but then we kind of put it on the back burner because life just happened and we're like, let's just roll with our worksheets and all those types of things. And we constantly get emails and dms and about, hey, can you mentor me? Can you mentor me? And we're like, oh, we don't have capacity right now. And which is like the timing has just flowed so organically and naturally for us of things falling together. And so we kind of said, you know what, it's time to let's do pro prep again. Let's put it out there again. And what it will be as a cohort of about eight to 10 lactation specialists that are planning to take the IBCLC exam. So for the next example, we'll do one cohort for the April and then a cohort for the. October exam and they'll get a private facebook group. We'll get a one hour zoom call a month just going over like, okay, let's get our checklist out. Let's go over these things. How can we get our classes posting about free courses that they can get to satisfy their It's the criteria that they need scholarships out there and it just be that little corporate that we're working with to help them become IBCLCs and it is for black and brown folks. So we really wanted it to be what we're satisfying our mission of helping more black and brown people become IBCLCs.

Annie: I think what I mean, there's like eight things that I love about this, but I'll pick one, which is that you guys came together to do business coaching. You know, you, you had this idea and which is very similar to me and Leah. I love it. lactation business coaching. But like where your brains went was to this expansive place of like, okay, how do we harness our powers to bring in more people and to just make this possible for people because we know that becoming an IBCLC is really hard. There are a ton of barriers to entry and it just gets harder the more things you have stacked against you. And so, but so I love that you weren't like, okay, like, how do we become like, Rich and famous, which I mean, that would be great. You're already famous. So like stacks of cash coming your way. I'm, I'm all in for it. But I think, but you are also like, the point is to make this feel better and to, because that helps the families and that's what we're in it for. for is to see those great health outcomes. So, you know, I just like you're just saying, I know nobody watching. I mean, nobody listening can see your faces, but the way you both light up when you talk about these initiatives, it's just like, it's a really exciting time. So I'm just glad you're here. Thank you for being on the show today to talk more about collaboration. So let's just get your introductions out of the way. Cause they're pretty awesome. Leah, can you tell us all about Nikki Greenaway?

Leah: Absolutely. So Nikki Greenaway, AKA Nurse Nikki, is a wife and mother of three board certified family nurse practitioner. and International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. She is one half of Nikki Nikki Lactation Career Consultants, where she assists Black lactation specialists register for the IBCLC exam. In addition to co founding the New Orleans Breastfeeding Center and Cafe Ole Breastfeeding Circle of Families of Color, she is Also the proud owner of a maternal child health mobile clinic and health consulting firm providing maternal child and health training resources to communicate organizations. So basically nurse Nikki doesn't sleep and she works 365 days a week, a month, a year, basically, that's it. You are amazing. Nurse Nikki, that's such an awesome bio and you have so many amazing things that you're impacting the community that you live in and across the whole U. S. That's so awesome.

Annie: But wait, there's more because we've got another Nikki. We've got Nikisha Killings who is an MPH, Masters of Public Health, IBCLC, Registered Lactation Consultant. She's an Equity Strategist, International Board Certified Lactation Consultant, and Maternal and Child Health Advocate. Her life's work is focused on advancing equity in the field of lactation. Nakisha authored the chapter titled Cultural Humility in the latest Core Curriculum for Interdisciplinary Lactation Care. She acts as Director of Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging at Lactation Education Resources and consults organizations on creating and implementing strategies to better support marginalized communities. She is co founder of Nikki Nikki Lactation Career Consultants. which is dedicated to equipping aspirants of color to sit the IBCLC exam. In addition to being spoused to an active duty service member, Nakisha also homeschools four little future world changers and enjoys writing and researching on the impact of historical trauma on black families breastfeeding experiences today. And We'll give a little plug that if you haven't seen her webinar on assessing brown and black skin tones and what different things look like on pictures that are not in any of the lactation textbooks, I would highly recommend checking that out. It was a practice changer for me, and I know for many others. I keep seeing it recommended everywhere, but it's, um, I would consider necessary for anyone who is not black because we don't know what we don't know.

Nikki: Thank you for that. Thank you.

Leah: And we'll put a link to link to that as well. , we'll put a link to that in the show notes as well.

Nikki: Yeah, that was a gold IBCC day treat. I can't believe they still have that for free. It's such a treat. . But yeah, I, I, that's a work we're really excited about. We're getting a lot of folks interested in learning more about how conditions present on black and brown skin. And it's all, for me, it's all related. It's all related to having more folks that look like Nikki and I in the field, doing the work, being able to represent a different side of lactation. And so it's, it's all connected.

Annie: It's all connected and it's all important. And it's like, there isn't any greater work that we could be doing right now. Then, I mean, we're like literally trying to save the world and make it a better place. One, one baby at a time. So no pressure though. Right.

Nikki2: All the, all the weight of those words. I'm like, yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Annie: It is. I mean, it is a big weight. And I think that's a great segue into why we're having you on the show today, because this is not work that we should be trying to do alone. I mean, you know, just kind of starting with like, if I just try to go do it by myself, I'm only doing what I know. And there's a lot that I don't know. And the only way I can learn it is by meeting other people, but even beyond just meeting other people, you know, going to conferences, watching webinars, doing continuing education, the way that relationships and collaboration actually amplify your learning, it's something that I just, it's something that I can't put too much value on personally for my own life. And so, which is why Leah and I are doing this and why we love it. getting to talk to each other and getting to talk to other people in the field. So I want to hear about Nikki and Nikki. Can you tell us how your collaboration started? Like, give me the, the fly on the wall of like that first, like, we got to do this, Nikki. Okay. Nikki.

Nikki: Wow. Do you, do you remember Nikki? It's so funny. I do. I do. It goes back to an apple C retreat. Four years ago, I guess it was. NAPLC had a retreat for liontation supporters that was tacked on to the beginning of a Rose Conference. So they had, they had a retreat for, um, or for supporters of color around the Rose Conference that year in New Orleans. It was the first time we were doing this retreat. It was super exciting because we wanted to make it an amazing race. So we had these tasks that folks had to accomplish and each task gives you a clue to another. Place to go within New Orleans. So it was a great like adventure around the city and you get clues for each task that you complete. And so we were trying Clifton and I, I don't know if Clifton Keenan, another fantastic glitation supporter. He and I were organizing the locations around the city that folks would be able to go and do these different events. And we didn't know enough about New Orleans. So someone said, you know, you've got to talk to it's Nikki Hunter Greenway. She lives there. She's knows the city in and out. She knows the folks that are there and where you have to send people around on this obstacle course essentially. And so, um, we got connected early on in the planning process. I knew she was someone I was going to, you know, connect with when we got there, but I hadn't met her, had only heard of her work. And then when we, when I got to New Orleans and met her in person, we just clicked immediately. I remember going to lunch and we sat and talked for hours. Do you remember that? Oh, you picked me up from the airport. She volunteered to pick a stranger up from the airport. Thank you. Oh, well, appreciate that. And we talked all the way there and we had lunch and talked for hours. And we've been kind of connected ever since. It really was so natural.

Nikki2: Yeah. We're fast friends as we call it.

Leah: Yeah. That's awesome. And what kind of sparked the desire to, to collaborate, to put y'all's, you know, wonderful brains together and make this like bigger thing? What kind of sparked that?

Nikki2: I think I had just, I was thinking about taking the IBCLC exam because as a nurse practitioner, I had these things. I'm like, I don't need to take that exam. Like I can keep doing this, but I was getting so much from my, from, um, IBCOCs in my community. I'm like, oh, she's out here doing lactation and, you know, she, you know, going outside of her scope and she's just a nurse practitioner. I'm like, wait just a minute. So I was just really confused. So talking to Nikki about that and. I finally got to like two weeks before the exam. I had already registered for the exam. I said, No, I'm not gonna take it. I went back and forth and then my brother was like, Oh no, you should you should do it. So I took it And then after I took it and then that waiting period before you get your test results, I'm like, this was a mess. Like, this was a bunch of BS. Like, I can't believe I sat through this exam. It was so much to get to this point and then you have to wait. I was like, that whole process needs to be changed. I'm like, what if I didn't have, you know, like the, the means, the financial resources or, you know, the opportunities that I had, what if I wasn't a nurse practitioner? Because they just went out for the credit because I worked for myself. Like I didn't need anybody to sign off on my hours. I, you know, I'm an RN. So I had all of those classes and like what I did all my own documentation. So what if somebody doesn't have that? I'm like, no wonder we don't have no, you know, black and brown people. Cause we don't have any black and brown IBCLCs that, so, and I was in that at that time, there were four black IBCLCs in the state of Louisiana. I was number five. When I got my results, we have since then, I got that in 2017, we have since gotten one more and that's it. And so we just knew then that we had a clear deficit and we're like, why don't we do something? I said, we kept saying the name Nikki and Nikki. Like we're like, we have to think of something Nikki and Nikki, Nikki and Nikki does this Nikki Nikki. I'm like, how do we just help folks take this exam? I need a worksheet. And she's like, let's do a worksheet. Let's do a video. That's how

Nikki: it happened. It really is. We started thinking about how convoluted the process was and how we can maybe work together to help folks navigate it a little bit easier. While both of us were Pathway One, you know, exam takers, we had very different journeys. You know, Nikki, as she said, has come through her nursing career and I was, you know, just peer to peer, peer to peer supporter coming completely from a different profession, yet we found our way to Pathway One. And how, how... Interesting is that to end up in that same place, taking the exam versus the other pathways that some people could end up on. But nobody really gets how this works. Even folks who have been the IBCLCs for a long time don't really get how to get to the exam. It is just not. Clearly laid out any place and, you know, nuances change constantly. So we wanted to really just demystify the process and we, we, our chemistry is so good. We, you know, we, once we start talking, we can, you know, really break down concepts pretty simply for folks. And so it just happened to be that this was the way that worked for us to just kind of convey these really complex concepts in a way that folks could digest them.

Annie: Right. I think it's so powerful to what happens when you tell someone that you can do it. So like, I mean, and it's like, you were the same person before somebody said, I think you can do it, but you're not like, because having somebody come beside you and just say, I believe in you, it actually makes you more competent. Like you, you can like, you Learn more and do better and achieve more when you have somebody who's who actually is like, I just think you can do this. And, and you don't even need my like, I'm not even gonna like do the work for you. Like, I just, I just know you can do this. And so you're, you're providing something really valuable to people that will make them better, not just better at taking the exam, but better lactation consultants.

Nikki: Yeah. I don't think there's enough stop points or people along the way telling people that they can do it. Right. So, Oh, wow. Breastfeeding was hard and someone helped me and I'd like to do that job, but how do I do that job? Um, can I, am I capable? Do I have to be a nurse? You know, and there's, there's not a lot of. places along the way for someone to say, you know what? Yes, you can do this. And this is how, you know, and to keep telling you along the path, along the way that you can do this, it doesn't really exist any place. And that's a great hole. Like you said, it's like a switch comes on when someone's really gives you confidence that you can accomplish a thing. You start to believe it yourself and it makes all the difference in the world. I

Leah: love how you said you, you guys demystify the process because I'm still mystified. A lot of like, Oh my gosh, I recertified next year. And it's, it's like, can you demystify me? But I definitely think that is so, so important and helping break down those barriers. And like, you know, we're stronger when we're together and to have like, you know, all of you can come together and like, break down the barriers together because you are kind of a guide to like, this is how you get through this. This is the information you need, you know, it's all right there in front of you. I think that's so awesome. And it sounds like you guys really saw that like the lactation field was where these barriers were really there. for the black and brown people that were trying to, you know, kind of look for this as a possible career path, but felt mystified by the whole process. What were some of y'all's maybe like early goals? What were you thinking? Like, okay, if we could just, you know, like help 10 people or like, how are y'all thinking about this? Like, this is our, this is our goal with what we're, what we're. putting together here.

Nikki: Oh, well, you have to know Nikki to know that it was never that small. She doesn't think so. Like from this, this cohort that she, you know, announced at the top of the call, that is a thing that's been in the works from the very first discussions about what we could be. She always thinks so far ahead, like, Oh yeah, Fort will help everybody. You know, not just a small group, everyone will get this information and it'll, you know, we'll fix this thing. So it of always was something, you know, that we knew would evolve into being able to, you know, guide people along the path much more than, you know, what we started with was resources. There's a YouTube channel with great videos where we kind of talk through how to get to the end to the exam, but we always knew, especially from the inbox messages that we, we got from the very first day that folks need a little bit more guidance that's, you know, individualized than is available right now. So we always kind of knew that that would have to be a component to it. It was fitting it into our lives. I think that was probably the harder part.

Nikki2: Definitely. And that's where Nikki Kaye comes in and she rings me in and it's like, do you have capacity for that? Can you do that? Do you see the other millions of things that you're doing where you're saving all of Louisiana? Do you have time to do this? And what I think what's good for her is she kind of checks me and is like, um, Nikki, we can't, we can't do that right now. Yes. Like, or you know, like, like let's slow it down. And that's where we've come to, we've slowed the pace because my mind can go, I, we can't even tell you the amount of ideas that I've had mind . Yeah. We have big ideas. Slow it down, slow it down a bit to fit our lives and. Understand that families first. And then, you know, and that's why we took. It was so amazing. Y'all. It was so amazing. And we were just talking about it the other day as we celebrated year three is that we took a whole like 67 months off. No postings, nothing. And we hit like 1000 people. on instagram. I'm like, how did we get 1000 followers and we haven't posted it? And that's how we knew the need was there. We knew that we had to, but we're giving it at our own pace. We're not gonna let it will see Russia's. We're not gonna let you know anything else rush us because at the end of the day, like We have to have enough for ourselves and our other passion projects that we're doing. We have both have private practices. We both have large families, like we have to have enough for that. And this to us was just like a budding bloom, you know, like it was just budding and now it is really transforming, but it's going to transform on our own time and at our own pace. And at any point, we do not. Have any qualms with pulling it back. And he was like, you know what, pause, let's just take it a little bit slower. And that's what I appreciate about our relationship.

Nikki: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Annie: Gosh, this is like really like I love like you guys are like me and Leah. Like we have like we do that for each other too. And I, I'm actually like taking a lot in about what you're saying about going at the pace that makes sense to you because I'm, I'm definitely like the, the fast mover in our duo. And I think it's really important to get, have that balance in any collaboration. Yeah. When you find that, when you find that person that you can like believe in what they're doing, even though they have a different way of doing things than you and actually like accept like their part of it and say, okay, like I'm willing to get pushed and I'm willing to get held back because we're in this and doing it together. That's so valuable. Having that friends that you really trust and that's where your goals are aligned. Sounds like you guys have something really magical.

Nikki: Yeah, I think so.

Leah: One of the things we wanted to, you know, kind of highlight in this call was the collaborative, you know, way that you guys have come about this. And I guess I just wanted to find out if you guys had anything else in thinking about collaboration that you feel like really has showed itself so valuable now that you guys have been doing this for four years. So we know like kind of checks and balances on each other. Is there anything else that has come out of this four years that you're like, Oh, Nikki, I am so glad we are side by side on this plan that because I know any and I say that all the time, like, Oh my goodness, I am so glad I didn't step out on this crazy road by myself. How about for you guys? Are there other things that you find super important when it comes to collaboration, especially in the field of lactation?

Nikki2: Um, like a sounding board because we are like minded but different. I think we both help elevate each other and just being like one of my biggest fans. Like when I'm like, Oh, I don't know. Or imposter syndrome. We talk about this. A

Nikki: lot. Yeah.

Nikki2: Weekly of like, Oh, I don't think I can do this. Nikki. I don't know. I'm like, well, what we can though, but we can get our lives together. Come on. And then she comes against me. I'm like, this is too much. And I just like go down to my ball. And she's like, no, ma'am, get yourself together. And you can do this. Like you're a nurse, Nikki. And I'm like, what does that mean? So we both like lifting each other. And that's the power of our collaboration, but we're always for our COVID has really hit both of us hard. It just like Louisiana getting hit so hard and then her being in LA and then it getting hit hard and then having to move cross country in the midst of that. And then I think like our Nikki and Nikki live. that we do with LER. Like that was our place where we could just come together and still have our talks and but also use it to uplift other people. So use our experiences to uplift others. And, and that's what's been great about our collaboration is just we're there for each other in personal and professional, but then we're also using our relationship to uplift other people. So,

Nikki: Yeah, what she said.

Annie: I mean, you mentioned that you both have the, you know, the imposter syndrome, um, Lee and I have as well, but so just to kind of tell you that I don't, if you're not aware of how meaningful those weekly calls have been during COVID, like just hear it for me, like there were just, just that they were there and some of them I joined live and some I watched later and. But it was just like, ah, like people are here and like, they're so timely and, and just all of the resources that you put up there, like, I, I do feel like you really, and I was like, and they're doing, they're free, like, I would pay for this just, I would have paid for it, but it was like there, it was like, oh my gosh, like this is there and it really showed how much, how invested you were in your, in the community of the lactation community and just all of us. You know, saying things that we were all going through. So thank you for that. Yeah.

Leah: I really think that you guys showed your commitment to our community by doing that. And like, you know, like proved your value exponentially. Like if anybody was like, Oh, I think Nikki and you're great. I think then they were like, Nikki and you're amazing. Cause I jumped on several times. I was just like, these are all the words I needed to hear today. Cause I was like, having a really hard time, you know, and trying to figure out what do we do and how do we manage this and what's the next step, you know, and it was just so wonderful to have that. I think that was like so smart on your part, your part. And also just what a gift, what an amazing gift to our community as a whole. I think you, you guys have really stood in that space for us and pulled us all together in many ways. And I I'm so grateful for that. And I think your collaboration is amazing.

Nikki: Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah. First shout out to Lactation Education Resources who makes that possible and who, you know, their owner, Kira, who just so selfishly, you know, Allows us the space to do what we do and choose our topics and our guests and, and just to hold space and not necessarily have it be a moneymaker for LER, but you thought it was just important to have us out front. I think what you all are seeing is kind of another commonality. Between Nikki and I, we're not out here to get rich. I think our, our goal is really to be of service. And I think that shines through our work. A lot of what we do is, is for very little or no pay that we find that it's very important to us to provide that to the community who cannot otherwise afford to get services, like what we provide. So that's why you'll, you have seen and you will see so many things available through us that don't have a dollar sign attached to it. It's just really important for us to make these things available for folks who, who need them but cannot afford it, you know, traditionally. So thank you for noticing that though. We appreciate that.

Annie: I think you hit on something really important about. the problem. The lactation field is the necessity to provide things that like where you're not getting paid. And we see this all the time. And it's, you know, it's something that's sort of like, why does it have to be that way? Whereas there's money like there's money in this world. And how do we get the money to the people that are in it to do service? And I think that it's, you know, having that heart for giving and The even when you're not getting paid for it is like we, you know, so many of us have that. And then there's also the other piece where it's like, but it's wrong that you're not getting paid for it. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's not wrong that you're doing it for free, but it's wrong that you have to, because they're like, how do we fix that? And I'll make it an even bigger picture questions. That's just like my one little thing is like, I just want to see people that are doing good work, get paid. From your perspective in the work that you've been doing being on the ground, both in your private practices and working with these aspiring IBCLC candidates, if each one of you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the field of lactation tomorrow, what would it be?

Nikki2: I've been thinking about this. Yeah. Mine would be disparity. The disparity. It really is because in my space, I am the only black nurse practitioner IBCOC in the state. I'm actually the only. nurse practitioner, IBCOC. So, and we can't bill. So in our state, you know, other lactation consultants and other states can't do like Edmonton, Louisiana. So I am billing, like, I'm like the only lactation person billing in this state. And I can't go on vacation. Like I can't leave. I'm always on always. So. just to have help and collaboration in within my space. And now we're virtual and I can send people, you know, to other spaces, but I really wish there were more folks. And so the disparity, the huge gap, man, between black and brown and white IBCOC is just so crazy. And I think with that disparity, once we start closing that disparity, we can kind of like we don't have to play Mythbusters so much with clients that all the the BS that they've received, the misinformation and, and all this stuff because, because the disparity is, is the gap has closed a little bit so that the information to me is, it kind of becomes more factual. Like we're using more facts because we have other people in here. It's like, Oh, okay. We're working together in tandem and teaching each other cultural norms and historical context. And it's not just me. Like, remember, you know, like only doing black breastfeeding week. No, I'm gonna keep talking about this. And this year I didn't really push as much like breastfeeding weekend talking about, cause I'm not going to keep, I'm not going to keep saying why we need by breastfeeding week. I'm not going to be talking about that. I'm going to talk about it. I'm going to do it through my work and show it that way. And, and continue to work with Nikki and Nikki and trying to get more black IBCOCs and. And black and brown people in our spaces. Because that to me is black breastfeeding. We compounded that is black breastfeeding through 65. So shout out to Shelly and all those, but that is, that is that. So that's what I would like to see. The magic wand is the disparity.

Leah: The first thing that came to mind when you said that it's like, it's black breastfeeding week. In action versus just for show, you know, for on, you know, on social media or whatever. It's like, you work in action for it day in and day out 365 days a year.
Nikki: That's awesome. Yeah. It's a, it's a verb, right? Let's see a similar course. Cause so much of my work is rooted in dismantling bias and establishing equity where possible, which is everywhere. I think for me, it would be. Yeah, for every family to have access to safe spaces and providers. Respect and honor as human beings, and that would cancel out all the disparity, quite frankly, it would so that, yeah, that would be, that would be the seeing my magic wand, what, um, would make happen.

Annie: Yeah, I mean, it's when you think about having more. black providers in our fields where we're learning from there from them, where we're all learning from them. We're all learning from each other. It then becomes like you can't get away with being a racist jerk to your black clients because there's enough people that are watching you and it's and it's not just the black people watching you. It's the white people like we're all watching. We're all like, no, like You can't get away anymore. And that's something that I think, you know, that's something where looking at black breastfeeding week and really challenging supporters of black breastfeeding week, the white supporters of black breastfeeding week to stop talking about why we need it, like you said, because we know we need it. And it might have been just me. Having rose color glasses on. I do feel like I saw less of that this year or I saw more. Maybe it was just like there was a lot going on this year. So I was like not noticing people doing it wrong. But I saw a lot of more action oriented stuff. And so, you know, just looking to, you know, both of you saying that's what we want. We don't want people, we don't want to explain this anymore. We're tired of explaining, like go read a book and just like doing stuff, you know?

Nikki: So I feel like when, maybe it was different in the beginning when the week began, but I feel like at this point when you see a comment or you hear a response, like why, why wouldn't there be a white breastfeeding? You know what I mean? You see that kind of response. That person's not really interested in learning the answer. They don't.

Nikki2: I'm not, I'm not doing this shit with you today, ma'am.

Nikki: I don't know if this show is rated G, but I'm sorry. Greenaway is here. Okay.

Nikki2: I got me fired up.

Nikki: You know, at this point, when I see that, I'm like done move on to the next person because I've never, ever seen that end. Well, I've never seen that person get educated in turn. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'll Tell everyone about Black Breastfeeding Week now. No, that doesn't happen because they're not interested in learning or growing. And so it's a waste of resources and energy and it's heavy lifting for the folks who've been lifting heavy too long. So no more, no more. That won't happen. Yeah. I, to your point though, the more, you know, allies, advocates, you know, show up, the less opportunity for providers to get away with the crap that's happened for far too long. So I'm all for it.

Annie: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that goes into, you know, collaboration as an act of service. And so as for people who want to be allies, really seeing our collaboration is not about sharing the work in like a we're partners kind of way, but really saying like, how can I serve, how can I give and also, and that. you know, if I'm, I'm here, if you need me for whatever you need me for. And then also just supporting and like, you know, going to these trainings, like being the eyeballs so that lactation education resources sees how, you know, how wanted these are. So gold sees like, this is what people want, you know, just showing up. And then we got to, we got to figure out ways to pay for these things that you guys are doing. Like this, they need to be paid for. We have to figure out how to get people paid while they're becoming lactation consultants. These are not problems that we need to, that we should be trying to solve as individuals or as like little duos. These are systemic problems that, that really need to be answered. And you guys mentioned Clifton Kennon. And it reminded me that he spoke at Milka, the New York lactation consultants a few years ago. And he said something that like really struck me and actually like. sent me a little bit down the road that I've been on, which is if you can't explain to somebody that this is a job, why on earth are you going to think they're going to want to become a lactation consultant? And I was like, yes, it's got to be a job, like a real job, not a made up. Like, let me, let me explain to you why this is a job, but like, this is a career. So going back to why you're bringing together, it's not just the clinical, it's not just the training, but that. You're also saying this has to be a business and people need help with that part, too.

Nikki: Absolutely. And a profitable business that can change families, you know, entire reality, you know? Yeah.

Leah: Bring opportunity, you know, this can be such a flexible career and so many different ways that you can use the skills and knowledge in so many different ways, like that needs to be available. To everyone, you know, so that, that amazing flexibility can, can really benefit families on both sides, you know, both the provider and the, the people receiving the care. So I think that's so important and that's, you know, Annie and I have such a passion for, you know, sharing the business aspects of it, just like you guys. And like, this is, you can get paid for this. This is this thing that you love that pulls at your heartstrings constantly can also be the thing that, you know, puts food on your family's table and likes your kids to school and that kind of, you know, it's like, it is, it is that it is that and it can be that, but we got to get people wise and smart about it because it does sometimes feel like people look at it like a little side hobby that I'd like to dabble in. And it's like, no, this is the thing, like a real thing,

Nikki2: Mindset, mindset is big. And that's one thing that Nikki and I've been working on is, is like just this mindset around this. It's like, This is a real job. You know, we have real responsibilities. They're real legalities that go along with it. Liability and documentation. Like what I'm trying to teach some of the C. O. C. S. I'm working with. You have to document because when I get that client, I want to know what exactly what happened to him. They're like, I don't want it to be all medical. No, bro. This is slightly medical. Sorry. Milk coming out your breast is medical. So, so, or it's not coming out your breast that felt so bad. Yes. And so we have to, we have to have that net. And that's one of the things that we want to infuse into our appropriate group is That mindset of get your head in the game. And I think once you change that mindset of these are the criteria, check, check, check, you're going through your checklist. Just as if you see a client, you're going through your checklist of things that you need to do. And one thing we're passionate about with pro prep is that we really wanted, we really wanted to be free. We wanted to be free to the communities that we serve to the, um, to the future. I B. C. O. C. S. And we think that other folks should be paying for We think that a big organization should come in and say, you know what? We're committed to this and we see what you're doing and we see how important it is. And we want to sponsor the 10 people in your cohort. And that's really important to us or at least, you know, discounted. So to Decrease the burden because that is one of those big hurdles. One of those barriers that black and brown people are experiencing is this a hurdle of the money. Like it's expensive to do what we do to get that certification, you know, all the different things taken off work, you know, this, the books and all the trainings. And if you don't go to the training, but you signed up for the training and you never did get to it. And all of these things, the webinars, like all of that is expensive and we're just like counting, you know, pulling straws to get these numbers for this registration. And it's just, it's a lot. And we want to decrease that burden. And we feel like, you know, somebody else should be carrying it.

Annie: So if you have any listeners with connections at corporations that are who code compliant and good people, we've got some people that need some money. So let's, uh, write in if you can help. And this is something that, you know, and I say that. I'm not joking when I say that, because that's how things happen. That's how everything, every big thing that I've seen happen in my life is because somebody was like, this should, this should happen. This just should happen. And I'm not talking about magical. I'm not manifesting. When I say that, I'm not saying if I speak it, it will happen. But just having that understanding that. There are things in this world that need to happen and when you believe that you're gonna find the way to it and you just have to and you just have to talk about it like talk about it because you never know who is listening and you never know who is ready to open their checkbook, who is ready to say, Oh, I do know somebody and I've seen this happen in my career, my lactation career and in other careers that I've had is just what happens when you talk about what you're doing in front of other people.

Nikki: Yeah, it's true. Clothes mouths don't get fed. It's . It's a very southern stain. . But we, you know, we, we know that you have to, you have to put it out there. You have to let the request be known in the universe and, uh, see what happens. See what comes back to you. So, yes, if you would like to support training us getting 10 IB CLC exam takers ready for the exam, please let us know that you'd like to support Prop Pep.

Annie: We're ready to talk. And we will make sure you've got all the ways to contact Nikki and Nikki in the show notes. All of the many things we talked about here today. And we, we went way over the time that you scheduled with us. So thank you for staying on extra. I know you said at the beginning, It's been a long week and you've got a lot going on and you're tired. So thank you for being here. Um, I hope that the people in your house take care of you today and do lovely things for you. Yes,

Nikki: We do too.

Nikki2: Yes.

Leah: It's such an important conversation. I'm so glad we were able to spend a little extra time on it because I think this is Things that we want to get out in the world and we want to put this out there So all of our podcast listeners will have this and we're just going to start that chain or that chain reaction, you know They're going to tell somebody else and they're going to tell somebody else and we're going to get this spread across the lactation community and continue the great work that you guys are doing. And we really appreciate you sharing about your awesome collaboration and yay, collaborators.

Annie: The great thing about collaboration is that you can never have too many people who want to get involved and do the work. So if you're inspired by anything you heard today from Nikki and Nikki really act on that, do something. They would love to have you, the lactation consultant community. We need you. There's so much to be done and the more the merrier. We can have a really good time doing it with the right people. So certainly awesome. Thanks again. And we will talk to you soon and talk to you later. Leah.

Leah: Bye.