8 | Compassion fatigue and the IBCLC

Annie: Hey there, Leah.

Leah: Hey, Annie. How are you?

Annie: Well, as always, when I'm talking to you, I'm good because I really look forward to these conversations.

Leah: It’s my favorite part of the week is getting to have this time to talk shop and really, you know, tackle all these hard issues that you and I are dealing with on a day in and day out and know that everybody out there that's listening is probably nodding their heads with us like, Oh yeah, I'm dealing with that too. So it just feels like even though we can't see them all out there, I just feel so much more connected with my community of LCs through this podcast because I just. I know that we, we all face these really tough challenges and I know today we're working with, with a really tough one and I think this is kind of one of the biggest thorns in the sides of IBCLC and private practice work and it's compassion fatigue and we, we get hit super hard with this one. I think maybe more than most professions out there.

Annie: Absolutely. And I think that it's important that we talk about this. Because of the ramifications of not talking about it can have on us and also on the families that we're working with and on our professions. So we are going to go deep and hopefully get somewhere with this topic. But before, before we stress ourselves out, marketing motivation for us, what do you have for us this week?

Leah: Well, on our theme of, of working with reaching out to those that you want to refer, getting your product out in front of the people that you want, and your product is you, that you want to use you as a lactation consultant, really reaching out to referral sources is a valuable way to grow your business. So we've talked about reaching out to doulas and hospital LCs and hospitals in general. And the other. Another area that I think is really valuable is midwives and I know this can be different for different areas of the country for us in Texas, we have freestanding, lots of freestanding birth centers, and lots of private practice midwives, and I think they are an amazing place to get referrals, because These, they're typically dealing with families that are highly motivated for breastfeeding and really want to reach out and tap into resources in their community. So you have very primed and ready to go clienteles. And I think the midwives, although they are very wise in breastfeeding, they do hit places where they're like, this is beyond. Kind of my scope and we can be that resource and value to their services by them having lactation consultants that they refer to, I think that can even make their business more valuable. And that's how you want to approach it. Like I want to make your business more valuable by you having amazing resources at your fingertips when you might not be able to help out the family. because it's gone kind of beyond what your abilities are. And here, I'm here for you, I'm here for your, your clients and your families, and I'm ready to help them. And I think that's a really powerful way to, again, build your name in the community and make that far reaching.

Annie: Midwives might be more. inclined to follow through with some of recommendations you might have like for getting blood work for when lactation isn't, you know, when you've got supply issues, that midwife is actually more than the OB is going to have the motivation to follow through with some of those things and you can sometimes it's easier to get to them, you know, where you can, they're more accessible.

Leah: I think they're so much more accessible. Yeah. In future podcasts, I will be talking about marketing yourselves to doctors and things too, but I think it's a nice place to start with. The birth community with doulas and the midwives because I think they're very accessible. They're very, you're typically by nature, you kind of have to be warm and welcoming type of person to work in that profession and it can kind of warm up your marketing juices. and confidence and how you want to talk about yourself and your business to start with these maybe a little bit more accessible and easy to talk to places to get referrals and then you can kind of branch out from there as you're feeling more comfortable. So don't forget, reach out to those midwives, make connections, show them how you can bring value to their business. You know, they're running a business too, especially if they have a birth center and they're, they have overhead and things, so, so showing your value to them can really make them want to connect with you and refer to you.

Annie: And you could make some, make actual friends too, you know, like where those business becomes something really personally fulfilling, connecting with people that are likely to share a similar worldview and passion for things and belief in, in the value of things that you value. Absolutely. I just really like midwives. I think they're awesome.

Leah: The ones that I know. So awesome. I know. All the ones I know are just amazing human beings. I mean, not aside from their profession. They're just amazing human beings.

Annie: And I think the good ones get compassion fatigue.

Leah: I was just about to say the same thing. Like I think they probably could, could relate to the issues of compassion fatigue too. And certainly they're dealing with, you know, life and death situations and high stress. And so I'm sure that they can definitely relate to some of the things we're, we're talking about. But maybe we can start with just what it may be. Here's a new person here. And they're like, what the heck are you talking about compassion fatigue. So Annie, what would be your definition? Like if you're going to write them in the dictionary, what is compassion fatigue?

Annie: So when you work in a helping industry. You're putting out a lot of yourself to people. So you're, it takes emotional energy. So if you think of someone who does physical labor. So they are lifting heavy things all day or someone who is maybe, um, working as a trauma surgeon where you're doing just a lot of really intense physical stuff. You might be feel physically exhausted the next day. So where you're like, I'm sore from lifting all those things or You know, my hands are aching because I was doing this really fine motor skills work. And so you've got a feeling in your physically in your body that tells you how hard you were working. So for us, we're not really doing a lot of really physically intense things like midwives. Like my, my midwife friends are like, I'm so sore after a burn. I don't know. Sometimes squatting.

Leah: Leaned over like really awkward position. Like if a mom's. Maybe on a bed or something that I'm trying to like contort my body to like help them. Oh, sometimes I'm, my back is aching, but not our typical, for sure.

Annie: Not our typical. And so what we are doing is we are working very hard with these soft emotional skills. We are using empathy. We are listening. Sometimes we're listening to things that are really. Intense that are ugly, painful, scary. Some of these things might be triggering for us of things in our personal histories. And we're having to do a lot of work to present to our clients. a calm, reassuring, compassionate face, and pulling back all of our emotional responses. So, not that we're robots, but when a client is telling you some, her birth story, and, and there's a moment that's really horrifying, we can't jump up on our chair and say, Oh my gosh, that's crazy. I can't believe that happened to you. And this is horrible. You know, you're not supposed to like start sobbing because you're so upset about what you just heard. So you're having to push that down and stay professional, but we do have to deal with that. So we can get to a point where we have used up, we've depleted our compassion muscles. And we're fatigued and we're sore and we don't feel good.

Leah: And it can be even to the point of having a physical response. I mean, I know at the times where I've become aware of my own compassion fatigue, it is almost a physical, just. Like, I feel sucked dry of all energy. Like I can't even discuss, you know, what we're having for dinner. Cause it just seems too emotionally draining to talk about it. You know, it's like, I know that I'm hitting my compassion fatigue when any conversation. feels like it would just sap the last bit of energy that I have in my body. And I always know if I am like passing out at 8 p. m. because I'm just so exhausted. My body tends to just do the, I'm going to fall asleep. Really, really early if I have compassion, like my body gets physically energy drained. Like that's my signal. So when I'm like, I can't even stay up past the kid's bedtime to have a conversation with my husband for a minute, then I know I'm probably need to do a self check and like, where am I at? That's what it looks like for me. Or like an overwhelmed feeling, I think would be the other thing. I just like, feel like everything's. piling on top of me, you know, like everything feels 200 times bigger. Like the load of laundry is not just filling a basket. It's like. Covering our entire house, you know, just feels so big and just can't even manage it. But what does it feel like for you? What does compassion fatigue look like for you?

Annie: I get where I feel like I have to withdraw just socially and I'm a pretty friendly person. I tend to have a lot of energy. So like when I say that it's like that sounds like that's what introverts do. I'm not really an introvert. I can handle a lot of social interaction. But when I've got compassion fatigue when I'm overloaded with caring what my clients. With I will go somewhere where ordinarily I could have some small talk and I just want to hide like I just don't I don't have any yeah, I'll talk for you. I also have been known to do the big short right? Yeah, I've ever seen there's an old movie called broadcast news with Holly Hunter and William Hurt and Albert Brooks and Holly Hunter plays this journalist who is super high strung and super Super on edge all the time. And she has a ritual every day where she takes the phone, this old rotary phone, takes it off the hook and unplugs it, and then sits on, on the bed in the hotel room and cries for like 90 seconds. But she cries so hard, the tears are like flying off her face and then she's okay. So I, I have been known to do that. I'll end up doing it in my car. I feel like that's a recurring theme. Things happen in my car. I know. My car. I'll find myself in my car and like I'm trying to get out of a parking spot and nobody's letting me out and I will be sobbing and screaming. Just let me out. Somebody let me out. Don't you know that poor woman got an episiotomy. She didn't want just let me out of my parking spot. And that's how I get I get it. Just it gets to where I'm not. I'm not able to over. Yeah, I'm either. unresponsive to other people, or I'm overly responsive to all of that social stimulation and not able to just be kind of regulated and even tempered and, and killed.

Leah: Yeah. Well, it's good. You know, I think one of the biggest things we can do knowing that we're in a profession that is prone to compassion fatigue is to recognize your signs, like we all respond differently and to start having an awareness. If you're an LC and you're sitting there going, I am so overwhelmed, this is just so much, you know, and if you're feeling like those feelings that seem like really big, maybe take a step back and, and see if Compassion fatigue is really what you're feeling. It's not that your business is that overwhelming in the sense of like, okay, you need to write a check to somebody or something like that. If it, if those things are feeling like just super about to crush you, you know, having some awareness, stepping back and looking at, okay. Have I been pushing too hard or have I had a series of really challenging cases that were very triggering for me or, you know, because they were so much like my own experience? Or did I have, um, you know, an experience with another professional where they just kind of cut me down and that has just been weighing on me? You know, things like that. I think an awareness In and of itself can be therapeutic when you're dealing with compassion fatigue once I had heard the term And I actually read a book about compassion fatigue Even just knowing like that's why i'm feeling overwhelmed right now. It's not literally that My house is overflowing with laundry. It might be, but the fact that I can't cope with that right now is not because I'm just, you know, weakling and I can't cope with stuff, but it might be that because of this job that I'm in, I am accepting that I'm probably at times gonna Run up against some compassion fatigue and then having turnaround and compassion for myself and that like this too shall pass. So awareness, I think is huge.

Annie: And I want you to find the name of that book. Cause we're going to link to it in the show notes on compassion fatigue. Cause I, I'm a reader. So I'm like, I want to now I want to read that book. Cause I don't give me a framework. And I also, you know, if you're listening and you're saying, oh yeah, I totally feel that way and. You are not sure that what if you feel like you're like, I feel that way, but I don't feel like I can laugh about it or I don't feel like I'm getting to that place that Leah just mentioned of being able to take a step back. If you feel like you're in it, I really want you to think about what you tell your clients when they tell you things like, I don't see a way out. I can't enjoy my life. I don't know what I'm going to do. Do you know what you tell your clients? You tell them that they should seek help from a professional that what they're dealing with and how they're what how it's hitting them Might be more than just the baby blues you might be dealing with something that's more than just The struggles of having a small business and I just really think that there's nothing wrong with getting therapy And getting counseling when you're feeling like your business is overwhelming. It doesn't have to be about your personal life. It could be about Troubles in your business and having difficulty setting those boundaries and dealing with the pain that you're Encountering and having to work with so I think that I would love for anyone who's feeling too overwhelmed or like this overwhelm or the shutting down or the crying is lasting longer than it should To find a therapist in your area who does that helps people who have businesses and helps with work stress Because you might need that. You might need to see one less client a week. so that you can go get the help you need to be able to keep doing this work that I know you got into because you love it. And if you're not loving it, you can get some help.

Leah: Yeah, and I think there's some strategies for sure that we can help ourselves stay on the, the other side of compassion fatigue. I mean, I think Inevitably, we'll probably all feel some through our profession at times because sometimes you can't control. I mean, we don't get to pre select our clients. Like I want nobody that has had traumatic births this week because I just can't handle anymore. We don't get that. You know, we don't know when we show up or when we read their intake form that they've filled out, like, it's not like you can say, oh. Nope, I'm not going to be able to handle you, you know, but there are other strategies that I think can be really powerful. You know, we talked about awareness. I think having a sounding board, a person that's safe. I really like having another LC because I just don't feel like I could tell my husband about, but it's not the same because he's never worked in this job. And, and of course still have compassion and he, he knows that it's a tough place, but having that, like. Somebody who really gets it like you and I, Annie, like we really get each other because you're walking the same path I am. And so, you know, my, um, one of the lactation consultants that works with me and we, we, really all of us, all the lactation consultants at work will right away, like, I just need to talk this through because it was an overwhelming visit or, oh my gosh, this week is going to kick my butt. Like, I just don't know. And just sometimes having that. Compassionate. Just person that that knows, like can say. Yep. I totally get you. I totally hear you. Is sometimes all we need. I mean, when you think about the moms we work with too, sometimes that's all they need. They just need somebody that's like, just need to know that they're not alone. To know that they're heard. Yes. And they're not alone and they're heard and they're feelings are valid. So I think having a community, I know we have a lot of online communities too, and I hear, I hear Elsie's reaching out all the time, like guys, I am like at the end of what I can tolerate this week, you know, and sometimes just all of us go in. Got this. You're amazing. I've been there.

Annie: Yeah. And just giving that empathy that we're so good at giving. And when you've got it, when you're feeling like you are in a good place and you've got a lot of extra compassion, go spread it around the lactation community because there are people out there. Who don't have somebody to turn to and you haven't made that connection yet And so be proactive with your extra good energy And give some of that back to the community and help people because it breaks my heart when I see lactation consultants posting that they don't have anybody to talk to or they tried to talk to somebody and were kind of rebuffed or right didn't didn't get the help that they need and I don't know, I'm like, very pie in the sky, but my vision is of, for our, our profession is that we can be people who lift each other up and aren't just reactive about it, but proactive about it and looking for ways that we can pour into our fellow lactation consultants so that we can keep doing this because It's important and it's necessary. And if one of us falls down, let's pull that person back up.

Leah: And I love, I love on some of our boards, like it makes me all get teary eyed. I can think of a specific situation just recently where an LCU is just at the end of what they could deal with. They're just like, Oh, this is so hard. And I. Put on the notifications for that post because I wanted to hear what other people, you know, of course I wanted, I was like, Oh, I want to support. And I said something, but I also, in some way, I want to hear what everybody's saying. Cause I needed to hear it too, you know, and just reading. And I think it ended up being like 60 something. Post on this one person just like I don't even remember what it was But there's something like I just like there were frazzled, you know And and then all these people posted it was just it made me feel love that. I love that our community. I love love love how we step outside of ourselves to support each other and It was just such a beautiful and then and then hearing what everybody was saying was just so resonating with me and I was like, oh, I just want to save all these comments for later because we've all been there from time to time. But I definitely think like we were saying, there are ways to try to minimize and then also quote unquote address or treat. Not treat, treat's not the word, but help with compassion fatigue if you're, if you find yourself in that. But one of the things that I know I struggled with early on, I'm super excited, new LC, and we got busy real fast. So that was super exciting. And I was like, see all the people. And I was like, day, night, weekend, any moment. Anytime I'm seeing everybody that calls and instantly, you know, I was like, hop in the car, I'm out. And to my detriment, because there is only so long you can keep up that pace. And it was super hard to realize, you know, come to that moment of like, okay, although that was And I was living off some big adrenaline rush. It was like, okay, this is not sustainable. It doesn't last.

Annie: It's not sustainable. And I think you see that when you talk to some lactation consultants who've been around for a while and they will talk about how draining it is to try to maintain that kind of pace. And I know that there are some who are struggling with, yes, they're really busy because they're the only lactation consultant in their area. And they do feel this moral obligation to help people. They don't want to turn anybody away because they know that if they turn somebody away, that person may not get any help. That is the worst. I have to say.

Leah: I can't against a wall. I mean, you're like against a wall and

Annie: I find it really hard to brainstorm strategies for that person.

Leah: A lot of people who do tell a lactation, you know, like over the interwebs, you know, yeah. Do not. In person, but they're going to do it through Skype or, you know, the different platforms that you can do telemedicine and that might be a resource for somebody who's in a more isolated area where they are the only LC in the area is to have in your back pocket when you know, okay, I've hit my limit, I need to refer these people out that you're not saying. Okay, I have nothing for you, but at least you have something, you know.

Annie: And also just to say that yeah there's a huge need out there and to check your superhero cape at the door because You can't help everyone. Yes. And so just to say, just to accept that and say, I have a policy that I am going to recognize that I don't help everyone and be okay with that. And to say, you know what, it is awful that we live in a world where babies aren't going to breastfeed because there's only one lactation consultant in this entire area. And that person ran out of visits. And isn't willing to create more room in their schedule to see more people That is not your problem. You Don't have to solve that and you can't solve that and i'm going to tell you exactly how you're not going to solve it You're not going to solve it by burning yourself out. So you're not going to do it anymore and then your community will have

Leah: Nobody. I know. Or you're trying to see everybody and you can't give your best help. If you're completely compassion fatigued out and running on empty yourself, you're not going to give the people the help that they need. Are Needing at that moment and I was actually just talking to a friend who's also in a helper role and Was feeling this exact feeling like I have to add more appointment slots. I have to open up more i've just i've got to i'm going to come in on my off day and and i'm like If you think about it, you could literally work 24 hours a day Seven days a week and you still wouldn't be able to help every single baby out there. So decide on how many babies or whoever you're working with can't, you can help and do your absolute very, very best at those. And then you're making a huge contribution, but running yourself dry, seeing everybody you can, trying to squeeze everything in, you're not going to make as big an impact as you think you will.

Annie: So think about you have. This is like a very, you know, not totally accurate metaphor, but say you have a pitcher full of water and you're going to give 50 people a little bit of water and they're all going to go away saying, man, I'm still thirsty. I wish I had more water. But if you give one person a giant glass of water. And they drink it down and they're satisfied and it met their need. They're going to, it's different. It's and it's, yeah, those other people are still thirsty and I am devastated for those other people that are still thirsty. And I think, I don't think any lactation consultant. Who's, you know, in this for the right reasons, isn't going to be heartbroken for the people that get turned away. And again, you can only do what you can with what you have and take what you can do and do your best at it. You can be awesome for those people who do see you and you don't know what. Is going to happen in your community and you might be saying gosh, I like don't even have the bandwidth to mentor somebody or train somebody but wanting to find ways to make being a lactation consultant seem Attractive and exciting as a career possibility so that you can get some competition healthy competition It's good for everyone So you're not alone. And I think what, you know, Leah and I definitely want to communicate to those of you who are really stuck in that bind is that we hear you and we believe you and we don't think that it's anything small that you're dealing with. We think it's quite huge.

Leah: No easy answer.

Annie: Yeah, no easy answers. And so we just want you to know that we're here for you and we, we want the world to be a better place specifically for you at this moment.

Leah: You know, another area, so, so being in that situation is hugely draining, but I think another area and, and I see this a lot with first, you know, like right when you're starting out the gates is you're so excited to get to help people that you almost want breastfeeding to work out way more than they do. So you're putting. So much emotional energy into their outcome and so much time and so much extra into their outcome But maybe that family doesn't match you in that and then it can be so draining when They're not in that same place you're you know, they're not wanting it as bad as you're wanting it And then you feel defeated and crushed when it doesn't work out, but they weren't able to put in That same level or that wasn't a fit for them. Whatever the case may be I mean, there's a hundred different scenarios But we always have to kind of check ourselves and remember that We can't want it more than that family wants it and we're there to provide them The resources and the plan but we can't go Past that we can give them all the support that they need but we can't Make it more than than what they're willing to do themselves, you know And I think that's a place that it's really hard like tough lessons to learn in the beginning is that I mean, I know I went into so many consults It's over follow up, you know, doing so much over follow and so much like pouring myself into this, like trying to get this to work for this family when it really was, that that's just wasn't going to be the fit for them.

Annie: That wasn't their story. That wasn't what they wanted or where they were going. That wasn't their
goals. I love that you can't want it more than they do. And I, I also love the one that I heard when I was first starting out was not my baby. Yeah, my baby.

Leah: Yeah, and we can love them and support them and, and know that their choices are their choices and also, you know, match what they level of, you know, push they want to push. But that's a fine little tuning that you have to do in your practice over time. So you, you know, you probably won't get it perfectly in the beginning, but awareness of where's this family at and am I matching? What they're doing, or am I pushing harder than what they are? Because that drains you so much. And then it's so defeating when you feel like I've put everything I have into the situation and then it's still didn't work out and you didn't have control because it's not your situation to work out. It's your job to lead them. But you can't make them follow, you know. And so it is so challenging. I really, I found the name of that book for you. What is it? So it's Keep the Fires Burning.

Annie: Oh, great.

Leah: It's conquering stress and burnout as a mother baby professional.

Annie: We all need to read that book. Yeah.

Leah: And it has, yes, it's a great, great book. And so to wrap up, Annie, before we get to your tech tip, I just wanted to, us to share a couple of things that you and I have done, because we're going to, I think we're all at some point, even if we're doing all these strategies to prevent compassion fatigue, there are situations and times that it's going to happen. So when you're feeling that, you know, when you're. Screaming at the people in the parking lot. What is your, like, go to strategy for overcoming compassion fatigue?

Annie: My personal go to strategy is that I take a look at my schedule and I say, I'm going to use some work time to catch up on something that is not client, not seeing clients. So I, in my personal situation is because I homeschool my kids. All of my work time is. Time that I am paying for so there's that extra stress that I put on myself, which is I'm paying for this drop in program that they're doing or For them to you know, take a class that i'm dropping them off at or whatever it is that's Like money coming out of my pocket And it's really hard for me to Not try to fill all of that with clients, but I have learned over the years that if I'm feeling that overwhelmed, that means I'm seeing too many people and I need to take just three hours even to be in my house, my apartment alone. Which I never am because I homeschool my children. So I'm here, there are always people, other people here. So the only time that I can be alone is if my kids are doing childcare, that's for me to work. So giving myself permission to do that and also not resisting the urge to squeeze people in and arrange for additional childcare. So I can see that person. And that is so hard for me to do. I am always. Happy when I'm able to do it and just say, you know what? I am not going to work an extra client this week. I'm just not going to do it because I have other things that I need to do and I don't need to balance them against the value of doing a breastfeeding consult. I'm going to do them because I want to do them and they're valuable to me and they're, what's going to keep me going and. That's it.

Leah: Yeah. And I think it's for me as a small business owner, an entrepreneur, I can fill any non family activity time with something to do with my business. Yup. And when I'm feeling compassion fatigue, one, I jump in with. Tons of self care. So I like, am I eating well? Am I getting plenty of rest? Because that's like first go to for me. I don't want my body to shut down on me. Am I exercising? Have I missed any of that? Because I am so overwhelmed right now. Like I start there. And then the next thing I do, I know for me, You know, if my boys all are at a friend's house, I'm like, oh, I could get some work done. I could do this, you know, thing on my website or add some Facebook posts, you know, like I'm always thinking in that, like, where can I squeeze in more things? And so when I'm feeling compassion fatigue, I shut Everything down, like, close all the computers. If the kids are all occupied and they don't need me at that moment, I'm, like, literally going to, like, vegetate, which is so rare. Like, you could ask my husband, he's a woman, never stops. And I don't, like, watch TV. I mean, I, I'm, like, just always going, you know? And, um, it's so powerful for me because it doesn't take that long. It might be just a half a day on a weekend. Everybody's occupied, and I do a thing. I don't even know, like, how do you do nothing? Why is that the hardest thing to do? It's so powerful. Like, I will literally just sit in a Like, I'll sit on the back porch and not look at anything and not listen to anything or not do anything. I mean, it's like literally I have a vegetable moment and I just sit and I eat good food and just do nothing. And so that's my kind of go to thing to do. And I sometimes really look forward to like, We have a Saturday and nothing's going on. Oh, gonna vegetate for a minute. It might not be for long. I can usually not tolerate it for a really long time, but it's so recharging for me to just have that, like, I'm not gonna put myself. And any pressure to do anything, I'm just going to like, vegetable moment my brain. So that's really powerful. I love it.

Annie: Yeah. That's great.

Leah: I love it. Self care is so important for us too. We can't even forget about our own

Annie: needs, you know? Totally. I went on a vacation last summer and there was one morning where everyone was doing something and I couldn't think of anything that I wanted to do. I just ended up walking around for like 90 minutes. Oh, and I was just like my feet were just moving and I had no destination and I was like, this is weird I am always going going going a plan.

Leah: I’m doing this for a purpose.

Annie: I think for people like us who are really energetic and really Like, and who like, let's face it, I love to work, I love to work, but it is not good for me to work all the time, even though I love it. I love chocolate Chex and it is not good for me to eat chocolate Chex at every meal of the day. We are not going to link to chocolate Chex in the show notes, please don't follow my example on this, but they are delicious.

Leah: Oh yes, I can totally understand. My go to thing is I do like low carb. Kind of is my diet. And there's this stuff called Keto Bark. And everybody out there is not allowed to go buy this because it goes out of stock all the time. So don't go buy it because I need to make sure my shipment comes. But this is like my secret little, it just picks me up no matter where I am. If I'm having a bad day or whatever, I'm just like, I get to go sneak in there and it's super expensive and a luxury, but I just like, Oh, it's so good. It has no sugar in it. So I don't feel bad about it at all.

Annie: So you got to take care of yourself because you don't take care of yourself. There won't be anyone to take care of the families who need you and who are depending on you. And that's going to lead to compassion fatigue, but you know what? You're going to get it. And that's okay too. Just don't keep it inside. Don't try to deal with it by throwing more work on top of it. Recognize that you are valuable and you are worth taking care of.

Leah: Absolutely. And before we go, Annie, tell us about your tech tip for the day.

Annie: So my tech tip has to do with, you know, little small strategies you can do to kind of turn off your work mind. And so I am. Obsessed with snoozing my emails. So I've got, so I know like, okay, listen, I'm not going to get into the whole, like how many notifications of unread messages anybody has on their phone, if it's like 32, 000, I don't want to hear about it. It makes me super anxious to see. So I'm somebody where like, I keep my inbox really clean, but once. Anytime some new message comes in, I get that dopamine hit and I'm like, Oh, I got to respond. I got to do something about it. And I use snooze away. And I say, you know what? It is Thursday at 6 PM and my work I'm, we're going to have dinner soon and we're going to do bedtime and. And I'm not going to work. And I took a quick look at this and is nothing that I need to deal with and I will snooze it until when I know that I can sit down and deal with it. And then the beautiful magical thing for me, which is once I snooze it, it goes away from my brain thinking about it is. That is magic for me because I don't stop thinking about anything. My mind is always going and it's a curse.

Leah: Oh Annie, we're so much alike. It's scary. But I have a question though. So you say snooze it. Is this like a button I'm pushing?

Annie:Yeah, so it'll be a little different in different email clients, but I use Gmail to access my email. So I have my free Gmail account for personal and I've got G suite for my client work and I use the inbox interface to access it Which I just really like the way inbox looks and they recently added snooze to regular gmail They've been rolling it out. So even if you've been using the classic gmail view, you'll now see a little button at the top, it looks like a clock and you click on that. And then you type in when you want to see that email come up again. And then it pops up like it's a new message. So it's great. It's like, it's a great reminder. I think that, Oh, I love this idea. I think Outlook can probably do that too. If you're accessing your emails. Through that. Um, but I love it. It's great. Cause I, as soon as I snooze it, my brain says no longer, no longer a threat. I don't have to deal with this. Go think about something else. And then it pops back up and it's new. So it gets my attention. And you get your dopamine hit again. I get my, I get two dopamine hits off of one email. Woo.

Leah: That is such an amazing tip. I love all these tech tips because although I think I'm fairly tech savvy, you seem to always find something I don't know about. And I get so excited because now I'm going to have to try this.

Annie: Got to try it. You get a, you'll get addicted to it. It's I'd love it. Cause yeah, it's really made a big. Difference in my communications what it is really helpful for Most of all for me are the inquiries. I got your name from my childbirth class Teacher i'm due with my baby in january and i'm like i'll snooze that till next week I mean, maybe not next week, but like i'll snooze it till tomorrow Like I don't need to respond to that right away and I certainly don't need it taking up any Bandwidth in my brain when I have consults, like it's, it's just that person does not need to hear back from me right away, right.

Leah: I love that. I think that's so powerful. And, and again, it's just another extra strategy to help us work on not getting ourselves overwhelmed with answering every email and every text and talking to every person and seeing every visit, you know, it's, it's really another great strategy for helping us combat that compassion fatigue. Well, Annie, it has been another amazing talk with you. I am so grateful for this time we have together.

Annie: And me too. It's just great to find out that I'm not alone with my thoughts about all of this. And I really hope that if you're out there and you're listening and you're like, I'm I am too feeling not alone with my thoughts and and that's great is that you know, reach out to us Send us an email leave a comment on our show page We've got a page on facebook or you know, just say hi to us if you're in a group with us Say hi to us. Yes. We love our Facebook groups. Me and Leah do. Yes. Yes. And we there,

Leah: So we, yeah, we love connecting. And also, if the next thing that we need from you guys is if there's a show topic that you're hearing like, oh, that made me think of this. And I really wanna have Annie and Leah talk about. Just anything that has to do with lactation business, please let us know. You can, like I said, reach out on Facebook, on email, on our show notes. I mean, just anywhere. We'd love to hear your feedback on what. Topics are important to you, and we've got many more great ones coming up, so stay tuned. It was great talking with you, Annie.

Annie: You too, Leah. Alright, bye.