16 | Coffee, Social Media, Working with Referrals, and Handling Payments: Listener Questions!
Annie: Hey Leah.
Leah: Hey Annie. How are you doing today?
Annie: I am great. I am really great because today we're answering listener questions and we have got so many.
Leah: I know. I am so excited about this. It's so fun cause it feels like they're all here with us now and we're just going to be talking to them and talking to the things that are on their mind, and I just love this sense of community this is bringing, and I can't wait to do more of these. It was so fun to get everybody's questions and to read what people are thinking about, and to realize so many of us are thinking about the same things. We've got a lot of the same things, which was super fun to see like we're one big hive, collective mind. I love it, and so I'm really excited about the questions that we have to answer today. So before we get started into that, do you want to tell us about our sponsor for today's episode?
Annie: Yes. Today's episode is sponsored by Practice Better, which is a platform that I know a lot of you are using and really enjoying. So Practice Better is your all in one solution to managing your practice, automating repetitive tasks and getting back to doing what you do best - helping clients. With Practice Better, you can automate your intake process, use templates to save time on writing your care plans and creating recommendations, communicate securely with clients and even keep them accountable, and Practice Better wants you to use code CLEARDESK20 and get 20% off your first four months with them. And what's also nice about them is that they've got a way to try for free where you get access to almost all of the features before you actually start paying, so take advantage of that. Take advantage of the code to get the discount. Check it out. They are really making a lot of people very happy out there in charting land.
Leah: That is super awesome. I love it. I love it.
Annie: So before we jump into our questions, Leah, what is your marketing tip for the week?
Leah: Today's marketing tip is about keeping you in front of your clients maybe past the time that you actually worked with them. So I think this is really, really helpful because your clients are probably one of your best marketing resources out there because if they're having babies, their friends are having babies and they're going to be sharing your information on different platforms. And so if you can keep in the forefront of their mind then that gives you an in on being recommended the next time the issue comes up, where maybe their friend is having an issue. And so I've heard a lot of different ways to make this happen, but some ideas would be to send the baby a birthday card. So I think that's a great one. If you're going to have the baby's birth date, you could have an automated .. even doing it where you get a reminder that comes up and say, okay, send these birthday cards. Some people will do it, like, okay, I'm going to send all the babies from March. I'm going to send all the babies from April just in one batch. You can get super cheap at the dollar store. Little happy birthday cards, just sign your name. You could even throw a business card in there and mail it off. It's a small price to pay and it takes a little bit of time, but it's such a sweet personal touch that will keep them remembering that wonderful time you had with them and they're going to be like, Oh yeah. Inevitably they're going to have some friend right around that time that might need your help and they can pass your information along. Or I feel like the moms that love you and are on social media are some of your best advertisement ever. So if you can keep them loving you well past the time that you worked with them and keep you in the forefront of their mind, it can be so important. I mean, so great for your business and marketing and so the other one that you can do, so that was more geared towards the baby. You could do Mother's Day cards and those are great because you can do something very generic. Again, just signing your name, maybe throwing a business card in there if you wanted them to have that, and you can even have cards made pretty inexpensively. So we do that. We have thank you for the referral cards that we send out, and we got them really inexpensive from Vista Print and it already has our name. I mean literally, all you have to do is stick it in the envelope, put the address on it, stick a stamp on it and send it out. And so that is what we have done to help keep us in the forefront of these mamas' minds and it's really paid off. So I hope that that marketing tip help for you guys.
Annie: Well, I liked the focus on thinking of something you can give to them that will put a smile on their face. And that's so many ways that you can take that, so that's really great reminding them of how you help them and giving them that warm feeling again. So thank you for that, Leah.
Leah: I love it. Love it.
Annie: So I'm going to jump right in with our first listener question. So this whole episode will be listener questions, and I'm going to say that this first one is maybe one of the most controversial ones that we're going to bring up in the entire episode.
Leah: Oh, this is going to be a tough one. Okay. We're going to do it. Okay. Break it down. What do we got?
Annie: You've mentioned using clients' bathrooms and taking off shoes at the visit, but what about that classic debate?
Leah: Oh no.
Annie: Do you, or will you bring a coffee into the visit with you?
Leah: Oh my gosh. No, this is too much.
Annie: Yeah, we need to shut this down right now.
Leah: I don't know. It just can't.
Annie: I mean, I don't know if I can take a position on this without doing up a pie chart.
Leah: Leaning to one side or the side or the other. Okay. Are you going to take a stand? Where are you standing?
Annie: I'm going to take a stance and the stand is that I'm a jerk.
Leah: Oh no.
Annie: This is the stand I'm going to take. I like to think of myself as this very considerate person, like I'm going to take my shoes off so I don't bring like dog poop into your house from the dirty streets of New York City, but I can't even tell you the number of times I have stopped for iced coffee at a coffee shop on the way because my client is early in the morning and I'm tired and I'm a coffee person. Brought it into the consults, and then when the consult is over, I've left it there for them to clean up?
Leah: Oh no.
Annie: I'm evolved. After doing it more times than I would like to admit, I'm very mindful of it now and I will say this. While I've left my trash, that's what it is. I've left my trash behind for my clients because of my coffee obsession. I do also carry breath mints and if I'm drinking coffee before I do a consult, I pop a breath mint because coffee breath is so ...
Leah: That is so important. I don't bring anything, water or coffee into visits. I just never have, probably because I'm the worst about leaving stuff behind. And I know 100% I would do that. And so I don't bring anything with me for me. But on this note, I think we talked about at one of the episodes, like if a family member offers you a coffee or a drink of water, I have had, speaking of coffee, a few clients who have this super fancy, cappuccino making espresso mega machine and they're super into coffee, and I have had some of the best coffee of my life in these families' homes. So if someone - not the parents - offer me one of these fancy coffees, I will drink it there, but I have not brought in my own coffee for sure and I'm really bad about. I know a lot of people would bring water. I've seen that on the message boards and stuff, bringing a water bottle in your bag or something like that. I don't even do that. It probably would be super helpful and good for me, but I don't even do that.
Annie: I don't do that either. I bring coffee in but not water.
Leah: I think that's such a good question though because if you went on Facebook, we started such a controversy with the paper towel thing. Oh my gosh. People were going crazy. Like I will never touch a dirty wet towel, only paper towels and I have so put a paper towel roll in my bag.
Annie: So speaking of that, I'm taking one of my kids to a podiatrist and he started talking to her about germs. She was biting her fingernails and he was like, you shouldn't bite your fingernails. You know how dirty they are. He kind of went on and we've been seeing him for a long time and he is super clean, which is good. You want that in your doctor. So he just started talking about germs and I know that he does, he's told me before that he does home visits for the elderly who can't leave their home. He goes to see them. We've had this discussion, lactation consultants about washing your hands at people's offices, and he lit up. He had also thought a lot about this.
Leah: Oh my goodness.
Annie: This is what he does. He will bring his own paper towels, but if they send them to the bathroom to wash his hands and he can't bring his own paper towels in with him, he says, this is what I do. You go to the toilet paper but never touch the end of the toilet paper, cause somebody else touched that. He says you go above the end and you start tapping at it to send toilet paper out. Then you tear it off, throw that end piece away. Now you have clean toilet paper to use to dry your hands.
Leah: Wow. He has really thought through this quite thoroughly
Annie: And it makes sense.
Leah: Things that I have never thought of, but I did encounter just recently - and we'll move on to the next question, because I think this came up - is the soap bar. I stood there at the sink and I'm like, where's the pump? I need a pump. I can't touch the soap bar. What am I doing to do? It's a bar of soap and it kind of didn't look super clean bar of soap and I was so panicked because this is when I need my own pump soap. I was having a moment, but I rinsed it off really good and then used it and I was like, note to self - I need to have alternative soap because some people use bar soap - and then bar soap just feels weird to me.
Annie: I think that's my own issue because I think that it's still soap.
Leah: I know, right. But it was just...
Annie: Psychological. I don't know. It's such a funny thing. I've just definitely come in to touch with my own. I've got some things that are my own issues and some that are like, you know, that's actually a really good idea to do these certain things, and other things I could be less uptight about.
Leah: Right. 100%. I know.
Annie: We're all evolving. Every time I wash my hands, I wash my hands with an army of other lactation consultants.
Leah: Yes. I think about it every single time now I'm standing in that sink and I'm thinking about all of you. And it just warms my heart and makes me giggle because I'm like, I wonder what they would do in this situation. It's so funny, and I'm so thankful we have this time to bring us all together on these hard topics.
Annie: Yeah. So, don't hate on us for our coffee.
Leah: Our coffee stance is tough. I know we have another good question. So the next question is, is there a way to participate in breastfeeding questions on social media? For example, someone tagged me on a mommy Facebook group of a mom who is asking what she can do to best prepare for breastfeeding her soon-to-be-delivered preterm baby. I think this is a really important question because social media is so tricky and you can really get into that whole gray area of are you giving clinical advice, something like that. But on a question like this, like how to prepare to breastfeed, that would be a great place to if you're tagged, say, Hey, thanks for the tag. Here's my website. We definitely have services that could help you out, or we offer classes. Love to help you out. So you're just keeping it really basic. You're definitely not straightforward marketing, like I have a class on April 16th and you can participate and this is the cost and ---- , because so many of these mommy boards have really strict rules about marketing so you have to be careful about that too if you're on the mommy board, but I think it's really important to keep it very, very bland. If you want to look at more about me, here's where you can go, but you're definitely not answering any specific questions. How do you handle it, Annie cause I know I get tagged all the time. How about you?
Annie: Yeah, I get tagged all the time. I do exactly what you do. I actually keep it really neutral. I say thanks for the tag, and actually sometimes this will have happened where I get tagged in a thread of somebody saying I need a lactation consultant and a client will tag me. I don't want to reveal that she's my client so I don't reply directly to the client's tag. I will just make my own comment and I'll just say, I see I was tagged here. I'd love to help. Here's my website. You can book online, so that's just a little separation that I like to do. I don't acknowledge like, thanks so much. It was so fun working with you.
Leah: Definitely don't ever do that.
Annie: I never do that, and I also always link my website and I tried to link my Facebook page for my business because I'm trying to just solve this problem. I feel like it's the unsolvable problem is that somebody tags you by name and then they message you with Facebook Messenger, and I just really don't want to even have appointment scheduling conversations over Facebook Messenger with clients like that. My Facebook is for me and not for the public. I don't know, so that's just always hard, but if they do message me, I'll say you have to check out my website, or sometimes I won't even respond if they use Facebook Messenger to try to reach me. I don't know if that's bad, but sometimes I'm like ...boundaries.
Leah: Well, you have to set up what boundary you feel most comfortable with, and I oftentimes, thankfully my business is tagged most often, so I'm grateful for that because then I'm not. Occasionally I'll be tagged, but usually my business and I haven't gotten a whole lot of personal messages, but I do the same. I just will send them like, Hey, you can find out more on my website and that's all I'll say just to keep those good tight boundaries. I try really hard not to speak too much on Facebook. Those aren't the things that I'm going to be running to first. It might take some time for me to answer some of those.
Annie: And I think the tag is enough marketing wise, so what I would hope is that somebody would click my name and I have in my Facebook profile, if you click my name, it says for lactation inquiry is go to www.citylactation.com, and for tech training for IBCLCs, go to www.paperlessibclcs.com. I would say hopefully most people are seeing that and clicking to my website. Some people are still clicking through to message. I think there's also a bigger point here, which is this question and the person asking the question. I'm also added the detail that she's also works as an RN in a big L& D unit, and so if she's getting tagged by somebody who might be delivering in the hospital where she works, she has to be really careful with the conflict of interest, and that's where that kind of generic thanks for the tag can really help, cause then you're really just not being unethical and doing anything that might jeopardize your job at the hospital or be a HIPAA violation or even an ethical breach. But the second piece is this person in the example is somebody who's asking, what can I do to best prepare to breastfeed my soon-to-be-delivered preterm baby? That's a very specific question. That has certainly happened to me. Somebody will post on a Facebook group, a local group, here's what's happening, blah, blah, blah, and then somebody will say, ask Annie Frisbee, or they'll tag me and somebody else will tag one of my awesome colleagues, and what you should never, never, never, never, never do is answer that person's question about what's going on with their situation. Don't do it!
Leah: If it's something specific, you definitely want to stay away from any potential mini consults or giving specific clinical advice at all.
Annie: And in the show notes, we're going to link to a great article by Elizabeth Brooks, our guru of ethics. She wrote an article called Step Away from The Mini-Consult that goes into detail why you're not supposed to do it. But at the very least, it's like, please don't have time for that in your life. There are many, many ways that you can offer breastfeeding support for free if that's something that is important to you to do. There are great ways to make that happen. You do not need to be doing it on Facebook. Just because you're on Facebook and something happened on Facebook does not mean that you have to immediately respond to that thing on Facebook. And that is the problem with social media is you log in because you're bored. or like for me, I'm waiting for the elevator and I'm going to check out Facebook and something will grab your attention, or you're like while I'm here, let me just see what's.... Oh, look at that.... Oh my goodness. And then all of a sudden, you've sucked yourself into something that five minutes ago was not even on your radar, and so just recognizing that social media is designed to pull you in and make you want to go in and stay.
Leah: I know, and it's so pervasive and so hard to get away from. I feel like it's something I'm battling all the time and trying to remind myself you can't sit here, you can't get pulled in. You have to have really firm boundaries. Thank goodness for Apple's new feature of time allowed to spend on an app. I totally use that, and when it says your time is up on Facebook today, I'm like, okay, thanks mom. It's like my own parental unit here following me and telling me to get off all different apps cause they all suck you in. So that was a great question and really, really a good one to come back around cause I know we all struggle with that too. So Annie, what's our next question?
Annie: So our next question, this one, and I'm going to tell you that while we were prepping for this episode, Leah and I actually went back and forth about whether we even wanted to go there with this question but we decided to, because I know that so many of us are dealing with this issue, and I really think what we're hoping to do here is not so much answer this question, cause I don't think it's possible for us to do this, but open a conversation that is designed towards just improving the health landscape for our families.
Leah: Absolutely.
Annie: So, what's the question?
Leah: I know. I'm so nervous now.
Annie: The question is how do you handle it when a pediatrician dismisses your assessment and recommendations for a tongue tie release? I need help with wording so that I remain professional while standing behind my recommendations. And first of all, I want to just give like thank you to the person who submitted this question and the way you wrote it. I really hear in what you're asking and how you're asking, your care for pretty much everyone involved, your care for the family but also your respect for the other members of the care team, and also just your respect for yourself that you're saying, well I believe I've got the training and the skills to stand behind the recommendations that I'm making, but I also don't want to ever be someone who says I'm the expert. I know best. Listen to me and do what I say, and everything will work out because we know that's not true. We are working within a team. We do need to have those team members in place. So I really like your focus on how you can improve the team, versus how do I get people to listen to me?
Leah: I think this really comes into just empowering the family. It's not your journey and it's not your responsibility to make them listen to any one person. It's your responsibility to give them the information from your assessment. We don't diagnose. We say what we see. We explain what we're seeing and then we can give information to the family, different studies or articles and then they get to go on their journey and really be able to follow the path that best suits them, even if it doesn't look like what we would think would be the best path, cause it's not our journey. And so the best that we can do is to empower the family if the family's questioning like, well, here's some information, ask questions. That kind of thing I think is really, really important to really hand it over to the family.
Annie: This situation has certainly happened to me, where I've said, here's what I'm seeing. Here's what I'm recommending. Here are some resources to read about it. My tongue tie resource that includes, I always put in there what are the risks of not doing it? What if I want to take a wait and see approach? So I always honor that as an option for a family because I do think that's so important, because remembering that a lot of our families are maybe coming out of a birth experience where they had a birth plan and they didn't get to do it, and so they're really feeling like this whole parenting journey so far has been about healthcare providers telling me what's best for me. When do I get to decide what's best for me? And so validating them and honoring them as the owners of their own healthcare journey is really important here. And then balancing that by saying, this is what I'm recommending based on what I'm seeing, based on my interpretation of current research and to be professional in that way. When they come back to you and they say, I talked to my doctor or my friend or whatever is, and they've said they don't think that's the problem. So that's really a lot of times what we hear. Somebody else, and it could have been so many different people, said they don't think that's the problem. And when my clients come back to me and say that to me, I say, okay, let's work on this, and I actually in that moment don't address directly. I don't get back into they said this and I said that. What I do is I say, okay, and I let some time go in the consult and we work on breastfeeding, and then I look for those moments where I can. This is when I am able to have a follow-up in person visit with somebody. But I look for those moments and I say, okay, this is what I'm seeing. And I just go back to telling them what I'm seeing and bringing it around. And sometimes I've had clients say, Oh yeah, I see that too. So do you think that could be the tongue tie? And then now they've brought it up. They've come back to it. So I've laid the groundwork and then I'm leaving it open to see what happens during the course of the conversation. And I think that could be done on the phone too.
Leah: Yeah, absolutely. And that gives the family the opportunity to process it all. A lot of times, if you're right out of the hospital and then everybody's saying this and now you need to go get a specialist involved and go to these appointments. And it's sometimes just too much in a time where we should be huddled in and bonding and everything and sometimes just having a minute to process and get their thoughts around it, ask questions if they want to ask questions of us, or ask questions of other healthcare providers that are giving them recommendations and letting them kind of walk down this journey and being with them. I think sometimes we almost put a wall up, then we're going to shut ourselves off from being part of the family's journey, and then they're going to have nobody to support them. And some families might say, I want to go down this path and we need to be equipped to say, okay, I can still help you. Let's figure out what that's going to look like now, and I think that's an important part too, is that this is their journey and we can stay professional and we can still be standing behind our recommendations but still help the family on their journey.
Annie: Right, and really I find that in communicating that at the time that I'm making the recommendation, so when I am referring somebody to get an assessment for possible tongue tie, or maybe I think the baby might need body work, I always say this is what I'm recommending. I really want you to decide what's right for you and I'm here for you, whatever path you go down, and then there are ways that doesn't mean saying, well, okay, they didn't get the tongue tie done. Now I have to make breastfeeding perfect without that. Granted, this is most of my clients whose babies have tongue ties who don't. So like you get the, you have the babies where you, the assessment tool clearly shows there's a tongue tie, you refer, they follow up on the referral, the tongue tie is released, then you're working on aftercare. So, a lot of my clients are going through that process when there's a tie. So then you have the clients who, where you say, this is what I'm seeing, and they say I'm never going to do that. I don't want to do that in however many ways, or they say the pediatrician or their partner doesn't want it to be done, whoever that person is and they're just saying no, this is not happening, and so then I stay supporting them. I do see most of the time that we work as hard as we can, and I do try to prepare them for possible risks of not having this assessment done, but let's see how far we can get. I have had two clients in the eight years that I've been doing this where there was definitely a tongue tie. They didn't have anything done about it and they breastfed for a really long time. These were both people who were not bothered by the pain that they were in. You will never hear me tell someone that's never going in the care plan. Your plan of care is to feel pain until it stops, but I have been there and I would say that was good for me to get to see. I do really believe in the importance of having babies have normal oral function and doing whatever we can to get them there, but I also really want my clients to feel safe and I really want them to feel like I'm on their side.
Leah: Yeah, I think that's, that's so, so important. That's a really a really good question and super tough to answer. And I'm sure there's a lot of different approaches to such a tough topic, cause I know it's one that so many of us come up against. But thank you so much for your input on that. I thought that was really, really helpful.
Annie: And I think this is a topic that I think is probably going to warrant a longer episode. So definitely would love to hear more about how all of you are navigating these very tricky waters. And one final thing on that too is that when my families say they're not open on the first round, then I shift my language and I'm no longer talking about getting an assessment for tongue tie. I'm talking about a second opinion. If you ever think you might want a second opinion because there's nothing wrong with getting a second opinion, a second look with a fresh set of eyes. So framing it like I'm not telling you to do something, just having somebody look at it. So I'll say, well, we can come back to it if you change your mind and you definitely can. We can still get a second opinion later if you still feel you want that. So I think that also can help with kind of mitigating some of that criticism that comes up, and it's also important for us to not be seen as tongue tie fact funnels.
Leah: Yeah, for sure.
Annie: Come to a lactation consultant and you will definitely end up with your baby having tongue tie.
Leah: That's the only answer we have is....
Annie: Because we know that it's not. And we know that identifying and supporting families whose babies have tethered oral tissues is a huge part of the work that we do, and I just dream of the day where we have prevention for this, so I think it's really great to be focused on how we're doing this in a caring way that's good for our families.
Leah: Absolutely. Absolutely. So our final question for this episode is as a medical professional, I am horrible about the billing aspect. Honestly, I would do all of this for free. So how do you bill, ask for payment, handle patients? I can't get my head around how to ask for money at the end of the session. Do you charge them beforehand, so it's not awkward and you can focus on just mom and baby without stress of asking for money at the end of the visit? This is a great question and I know this is a tough, tough one. Some of the LLCs that have worked with me and they are used to working in a hospital setting and now they have to do the asking for the money are like, Oh I can't do it. Can you just send them an invoice? I'm like, nope, we have to get it. We have to get it done. So I just have a script and a timeline of when I do it. So at the end of the visit, I will be putting my scale away first. I always put that away first and then I bring my scale over to my consult bag, and as I'm collecting my things and my console bag and putting in my little computer or iPad, I say, so for the visit today, did you want to use a credit card or check or cash? What would work best for you? And it's just an assumption that this is what everybody's expecting and I'm right at my bag where my little card reader is so I'll be able to grab it out right away, and it doesn't feel like I'm like, Hey, I need you to give me some money. It's just like, how did you want to pay for this? And it's gotten super comfortable. I will say in the beginning it is always uncomfortable no matter what, especially if you've never had to ask somebody to pay you. I think that would super-duper, duper hard, but just bite the bullet. Have your words that you were going to say. A little script is really, really helpful and the words just flow out of your mouth and then you don't have to think about it again. How do you handle it, Annie?
Annie: I use online payments with my scheduler for that very reason, but just like you, you just have to do it and you just have to say it. And I always say it like, so I can take cash, check or credit card for the visit today - this is before I was using online payments - what do you prefer? And I think doing it beforehand in the beginning, as you're getting comfortable with it, that's a good idea, just to get it out of the way and say okay, before we get started, and I definitely think there are other wellness professionals who would do it that way, so you can do it at the time during the consult where it's going to feel least intrusive to you. Definitely do it. And feeling horrible about the billing aspect, here's what I want to say to you, the person who asked this question. Feel horrible about it. It's terrible that we have situations here in the United States where it is so hard for families to access the care you need. So, get angry about it, get angry on a level that is going to inspire you to do something about it, because there are advocacy efforts, there are organizations that are working to increase access to breastfeeding services. So get involved with them. But when it comes down to your work, I want you to value the work that you do, because that kind of institutional and social change does not happen when people say, I would do this for free. If you're going to do it for free, nothing is ever going to change. And what will happen is that the people who already have means and privilege are going to get breastfeeding support, and the people who don't are not. And the only way for people who don't have means and privilege to get breastfeeding help is if we are willing to say this is something that costs money, and that we start getting our clients who have privilege to get excited about the idea that this should be getting paid for for everyone, just like the Affordable Care Act says. So use that anger but send it in the right direction. Use the feelings that you have, that discomfort and let it motivate you to get involved with advocacy, to have our services covered by insurance in a real way and not just in the fake way that means they send a million superbills and never get reimbursed. It's bad and that's not good, but that's not your problem to solve in that consult. You're there to do a job and get paid for it.
Leah: Right, and I think so many of us kind of have that heart of like, Oh, I would do this for free. I just love my work so, so, so much. But we definitely want to make sure that we're valuing ourselves and our time and the expertise that you have because you've put a lot of time and money into getting that expertise. So own it. You're awesome and you deserve to get paid for the work you do. And when you look at it like that, it's not so bad to ask for the money. All right. Well we had so much fun today answering these questions and I really, really enjoyed getting to do this. I can't wait for our next episode of more listener questions, but before we completely wrap up, I know you, Annie, have a tech tip for us. What you got today?
Annie: Yeah. My tech tip today is about email subject lines and having templated ways that you write your subject lines so they get noticed by your clients. So if you want somebody to say, you're sending an email that says here's your care plan, your subject should say care plan and the date of the visit today or lactation care plan or here is your care plan, cause you want them to be able to find it. I recommend putting the date on there when you're sending care plans because some email providers will thread those messages and then they'll have 15 emails that are all care plan, and they won't actually see the separate ones. Really kind of standardize that and try to, and staying away from like subject lines like, Hey there or meet you. I've done, you know, the more friendly ones because you needed to come into their inbox and have them know what's in there and what it says.
Annie: So our sponsor Practice Better offers customizable email notifications for appointment confirmations and reminders to make sure that your clients automatically received the information they need, based on the service they booked and where the service will take place. So having it say this is what we're doing, this is how long it'll take, this is when it is and if it's office or home, where it's happening. So you really want to make that information super easy for your clients to see in their very cluttered, crowded inbox.
Leah: That's awesome. Really, really helpful tech tip there. Thank you so much, Annie. Well, it's been such a pleasure getting to chat with you again today, and I can't wait for our next podcast for more listener questions. I'm super excited about it.
Annie: It's going to be really fun. Take care, Leah.
Leah: You too. Bye.
Annie: Bye.