97 | Annie and Leah get Interviewed!

Annie: Well, hey there Leah.

Leah: Hey Annie.

Annie: How are you?

Leah: I'm great. We have a special guest today. This is so fun. We haven't done one of these in a while.

Annie: I know we haven't had a guest on the podcast in quite a while, but this is gonna be a really fun one. I'm super excited. It was a case of the right question being asked at the right time. So we're joined today by Julia, who is a student at U-C-S-D in the Pathway to Lactation program. And so she reached out and she said she listens to our podcast and she actually said that listening to our podcast made her really interested in pursuing a career as a lactation consultant, which that just like, okay way to get us.

Leah: Totally warm my heart. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, actually, you know, I always laugh 'cause people. Sometimes don't realize you have a podcast. And then I'm like, sometimes I forget that there are out there people listening to our podcast. 'cause it's just me and you, Annie here chatting. And then I'm like, oh wait, there's people listening to this. There are people listening. That's really fun and an inspiration. And that means a lot because we're gonna one day wanna retire. We need to have people coming, coming along to take the torch and keep running.

Annie: Totally. Well, so Julia asked if she could ask us six questions as part of an assignment for school. And so we were like, what if you ask them to us on our podcast and we record the answers and put that out as an episode. So here we are. So Julia, welcome.

Julia: Thanks so much. It is great to be joining you both.As you mentioned, I'm a big fan of your podcast and it was definitely one of the contributing factors that gave me the courage to leave my corporate job behind and pursue my training to become an I-B-C-L-C.

Annie: That's awesome. Well, wait, you wanna kick us off with the first question?

Julia: Yeah, so the first question is what is a typical work day for you?

Leah: I guess I'll go first. So it depends on where I'm at. I work two days a week at our pediatric clinic where we staff five days a week there. But I'm there two of those days, and on those days it's pretty back to back rock and rolling. I see patients from nine to four, and those are back to back with just a 30 minute lunch break. And then on the other days, I'm either gonna be in the office in the birth center, which is kind of like on the other side of town. It's about 45 minutes away. That's how we reach out to like our Houston clients. And then I also host a support group there. So I might be doing that or I'm gonna be doing home visits. So I do home visits kind of all over the Houston area. So any given day I might be driving, I might be driving 10 minutes away, I might be driving an hour away. I'm kinda like all over the place. So it's a mixed bag, but I love that. I like having variety. I like not being in the same place all the time. I like getting to see all kinds of different people everywhere. So it's really fun. I like having the mixed bag.

Annie: So I retired from home visits this fall, and I am exclusively working out of the office, so my days are pretty much the same. I go into my office three days a week. I have. Other people. I don't work on the weekends, but I do have someone who's in there on the weekends and someone who's in there another weekday and then a home birth midwife who sublets one day a week. So I take three days a week and I will see three to four clients a day during my office day. And I'm pretty structured with, I do appointments at 9:30, 11, 12:30, and 2:30. And that's supposed to give me a lunch break, but sometimes I don't actually get a lunch break. But theoretically I'm getting a lunch break. But I'm very structured in my day because I start my day, one of my kids goes to school just a few blocks from my office. So I drive her to school and then I have a bar class that I'm obsessed with that starts at five 15. So I have to leave 'cause I have to get to that class because if I don't make it to the class, they're gonna charge me a cancellation fee. So within that, I'm typically seeing, I am typically doing for a day sometimes three. And I usually have an intern with me. I have a couple of interns right now. And so one of them is usually with me and my consults go usually. 60 to 75 minutes. Typically, on the other days, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, when I'm not in the office, I'm at home. I'm doing admin stuff. If I have virtual clients, I'll do them on one of my at home days. I won't use up my office day for that.

Julia: Got it. Thank you. The next question is, what is the best part of your job?

Annie: I'll go first on that one. Babies, like literally babies never get old. Like, I mean they, spoiler alert they do, but I never get tired of a baby. Like just let me see that baby. You're always gonna find you just delicious and adorable. Even if you're screaming your head off, I'm still like, but you're a baby and you're awesome. So yeah, the best part is for sure the babies.

Leah: I mean, I would totally agree. Babies are definitely what draw me in. I have this kind of funny thing I always say, 'cause I have four kids and I'm like, I had to take on this job 'cause I would've kept having babies. So at least this keeps me like in the baby zone and we didn't have to figure out a way to pay for college for like 20 kids or something. But, but I do also like, one thing I just really love is like. Helping a parent see how amazing their baby is. Like when we do like a laid back and the baby just self attaches and they're just, they're just like, wow, this is so amazing. And they're just like, their mind's like blown at how. It's just amazing. This little nugget is where they think it's just this little person that's so dependent on them and then you just open their eyes to like, your baby's bringing so much to the table and they're just like blown away. It's like, I feel like sometimes it's like the first time other than just loving and snuggling that they're just like, see the capacity of this little human that's in front of them and. I just love that. I just relish in that whenever I can get it to work, I'm always like, oh, I feel like it's such a sweet moment when they can like, see their baby in this different light and make this really awesome connection. It's really, it's just such a special thing and I try to take a moment to be very present and mindful and just feel really honored that I got to be a small part of that.

Julia: The next question is, what is the hardest part of your job?

Leah: Okay, so I guess we're switching off who goes first. So I'll go first on this one. I mean, part of Leah says Charting. Charting and more charting. I hate all the charting. I just want it to all go away. Can't we fix this? But I guess fix that. So charting's definitely not fun. Also, the times when it's like. Either, you know that the process is gonna be really long to get where the parent wants to be, and, and it's just, you know, it's gonna be a hard journey and that's like, oh, it just weighs on you because like you're with this person that's already like, worn down and you're explaining to them that like. This is gonna take a bit, you know, and trying to give them the energy and the motivation and you're giving so much so that you can try to help lift them up, you know, and it wears you down. And I mean, it's like wakes you up in the night thinking about these families that are really struggling and you're, you're trying to do your best and sometimes all the things, you know, just doesn't make it come together faster like you hoped it would. And those are just always so heartbreaking, you know? When there's just really challenging circumstances that, you know, are just gonna make this journey hard, you know?

Annie: I agree with that. Definitely. I will add another thing that I find hard about the job is how much of a fight it can be to get the parents and the babies the support and services that they need inside our healthcare system. You know, getting labs ordered, you know, helping parents advocate for themselves to get blood work done. Like shockingly is so hard. Or even just getting milk cultured for if they do need antibiotics, like not being able to find somebody who can do that or you know, I find that is really hard and that really wears on me. Or getting support for babies who need body work or would benefit from physical therapy or occupational therapy and just how hard it is to get those services for babies and. We're all doing our best. There's, but like there's other ways that medicine could help you. Like, you know, the medical system could help here. We have things that can be done if only we could get them done. So that's been really frustrating me lately. I've had a couple of cases where I just, I'm like, if only we knew what to do, oh wait, we do know what to do if only someone would help us do it.

Leah: Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Julia: Yeah, absolutely. I've always worked in the healthcare industry as a consultant before a technology consultant, but I really felt like the work that I was doing was getting kinda increasingly disconnected from anything that was directly impacting the health of individuals. So I do love the idea of it being a lactation consultant because I do feel like it gets me a lot closer to that positive impact in a more direct way. Thanks. The next question is, what would you have done differently in your career if you could feel back in time?

Annie: So it's funny, this is the one question that Leah and I were like pouring over in advance of this. We're like, what on earth are we gonna say? Like now I'm reflecting over all of my life choices leading me up to today. And like I can definitely think of a lot of mistakes that I made. I think a big one would be, and we have a, we have a podcast episode about this, and I think Leah and I were both reflecting on this as just. When we made, when both of us made the transition to private practice, we had come from a volunteer background and so we were just doing the most and charging the least for what we were doing. And just, I think we were both saying like wishing that we had taken things more professionally from the beginning or more taking the business more seriously. I know that, like I can think back on mistakes that I made just from being a novice, but I feel like I have more compassion for the newbie, lactation consultant that was, you know, I had to call my mentor and I'm like, I don't know what this is. And like just, I didn't know things, but I was okay with asking them. I have less compassion for the version of the previous version of myself that had our boundaries and. I didn't protect myself because that has been a persistent problem for me and I just, it's hard to change when you're doing something a certain way, even when you know it's not healthy for you.

Leah: Yeah, I would say very similar. I mean, I think I was telling Annie, like my early regret would be just like not valuing. My time and like, Hey, I went out and I got this education and, and all this training and that's worth something. And I was just like, no, but you know, I feel bad making people pay. You know, it was such a hard transition to get my brain around, but the other one for me was like, similar to Annie, was like, I could see myself racing towards burnout. I even, I can remember very poignant moments where a good friend of mine who's also a doula and she's just been part of my whole journey as in the world of lactation. She was like, Leah, like nobody can keep up this pace. You need to, you know, she was like having a heart to heart, like you need to check yourself. Like this is intense. Like, and I was like, no, I'm fine. It can go on forever. I'll be fine. And jokes on me that like, no, you can't go on at ultra high pace. Super high volume. You just can't do that forever. And I totally combined that with covid, like hit the burnout wall. And I just wish that I had listened to all those people that were whispering in my, and sometimes shouting at me like you. Because I was sure that I was built differently. Like surely I can sustain this. Apparently I am not. I am just so human, so very, very human.

Julia: Thank you. Next question is, what do you think the focus should be for the profession of lactation consultants?

Leah: O Man, this is a tough one. I mean, I think that one of the things that feels really challenging is there's such a huge. Range of knowledge base for different lactation consultants. And although we all have to pass this one test, it feels like, you know, some people are exposed to these settings and some people are exposed to these settings and like more comprehensive knowledge base and those kind of being the standards would, would be so helpful because I feel like sometimes people that are interacting with lactation consultants get like a bunch of different versions of what a lactation consultant is, and certainly this could happen with any profession, but I do think it's an area where the profession as a whole could work together to kind of build us all up to the same kind of comprehensive knowledge base, I guess, so to speak. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's definitely something that I feel like. Some people only have exposure to one environment that lactation consultants are, you know, work is happening. And that just is so limited for the wide breadth of all things lactation.

Annie: That's so good. I totally agree with that. It's a really hard question to answer. Because I have things that I want for lactation consultants as a profession, and then I also have things where I feel like I would like to see lactation consultants focusing more on these things. So I would say like in terms of lactation consultants as a profession, being a lactation consultant or being a private practice lactation consultant. I carry a lot of concerns over the impact of these large corporations on lactation so that the kind of uberification of lactation work is deeply troublesome to me. I also have a lot of like qualms about. AI technology as much as I'm learning how to use it and trying to teach people how to use it, I also have reservations about how it's gonna affect healthcare and just feeling very worried for the kind of care that lactation consultants like Leah and I are providing, which is so comprehensive, is so, you know, we've invested a lot in continuing education. We spend a lot of time with these families. We see them for a lot of visits and. I really want us to be valued in healthcare as specialists and as specialists whose work requires time and involves complexity. So that's more like on us as a profession to advocate for. Ourselves as business owners when we're in private practice to get fair contracts, fair compensation, to fight with the insurance companies, for them to treat us fairly.And if we're contracting for corporations to make sure they're paying us fairly. Because if we're getting paid fairly, we're able to provide quality care to people. So that's sort of like, I always just want to have us have a focus on. Just like in, just like in breastfeeding, when I tell the parents, you know, when you're in teaching laid back position, if you are comfortable. Your baby is gonna do better. And so for us, if we are compensated for the work we're doing fairly, we are gonna do a better job for families. And I, I just, I want people who are doing this work to keep that in mind and to remember it's okay to advocate for yourself. And then I, I would love to see just to continued focus on deep continuing education and training and more speakers in the field, more people, more new people, new voices. Lactation has always been dominated by it started out with a small group of people and those voices have been very loud and we've got new people coming. And just that I wanna see just more voices, more people, more perspectives, so that we can do better for all families in all circumstances.

Julia: That's great. Well said. Hey, my last question is what pearls of wisdom would you tell me as someone aspiring to become an IBCLC?

Annie: I'm gonna tell you what my husband tells me every day when I go to work. Stay hydrated. Seriously.

Leah: Oh my goodness, that's so good.

Annie: But also, okay, I'll give you a pearl of wisdom as you're studying for the exam is that, and doing this training is that it's an entry-level exam and there is a lot that you're going to have to learn to be able to pass the exam. That depending on your practice setting, may not be applicable to what you're doing. And it can also be, as you're learning about lactation, getting excited about all of the things that there are out there to learn about lactation. Like, I mean, it's, it's so, there is so much and it's so exciting and I will give you this, a pearl of wisdom that was given to me by my mentor when I was getting ready to take the preparing to take the exam. And she said, and I think I asked her some question or I wanted to know more about something and she said, I'll tell you now, but you're not gonna understand it until after you take the exam. She said something is gonna change in your brain after you take the exam and you will be able to learn things that you are not able to learn right now. And so don't worry about it. And that was so wise, and it was so true, like as soon as I was done and I'd taken that exam and I passed my brain like opened to things in a way that it wasn't before. So I was glad that she told me that my brain was gonna change.

Leah: I love that. I think I kind of experienced that too, because you're just in like test taking mode and you're just like rote memory of things and, and then it's like you just turn all of that turns into like, okay, how, how does this all apply? Now you're putting into action and that like action just opens up so much learning for sure. I think my pearls of wisdom would be one, stay humble to all you don't know because it feels like you know so much when you're taking that exam. 'cause you're like, literally, I read these giant thick books and I feel like I could answer most questions in this book. But there's so much nuance when you have two human beings in front of you or more. In front of you. There's just so much nuance to it, and just staying open to letting each dyad triad, whatever it ends up being. Be a teacher to you. I think was always something that once I realized how much I could learn, if I just stay open to like, what, what is here to learn in each of these interactions, because it is so nuanced. Like no consult is the same as the next like ever, ever, ever. Which humbles you because you're like, oh my gosh, every time I do a consult, I feel like there's so much I don't know. And the more courses I take, and I'm telling you I've taken 1 million courses, it feels like, every time I take a course I'm like, that just opened 10 more courses I need to take just to build and and build my understanding and then the other thing would be to build community wherever you are with other IBCLCs one, because I think the only way we'll ever keep this profession moving is a good direction, is if we're genuinely connected as a community and, and, you know, trying to move towards a, a collective voice, but also you really need support sounding board like people to just like, that was so hard. Like my back is broken. I leaned over this family for an hour. You know, I mean, it's just all of that, and I'm so grateful for the people that were with me kind of early on and like, and then like all the IBCLCs that I've grown to know and love and cherish just everything they give me. And I think you have to seek that out. 'cause you can become very siloed if you're not in a group practice. And I think it happens to a lot of people and contributes to, you know, just burnout number one, but also just. You know, not getting to hear what other people's perspectives are and what other people are going through. You know, it can just stunt your growth as an IBCLC. So more community is always better.

Julia: That's great. Thank you both so much. I really learned a lot.

Annie: You're welcome. It was our pleasure to do this and, and it was really fun to reflect on, on this and to have to answer someone else. Definitely made us think about these questions and, and reflect. So appreciate the time and for those of you are listening in on the day this comes out, our next deeper dive is coming up on April 22nd. We're gonna be joined by Michelle Clark, I-B-C-L-C. She's gonna be sharing a case study with us of work she did with preterm triplets, and it is an amazing story. There was a lot going on clinically. I can't wait for her to unpack that for us. I mean, I'm terrified by twins and triplets I think would do me in, but maybe after this I'll be, I'll feel like I could, could handle it. But I'm, I'm so excited for that. And you may have also noticed that we've been putting little excerpts from our deeper dive onto the podcast feed, so. All of those deeper dives are available as part of our monthly subscription. When you are a monthly subscriber, you get live access to join us for a live deeper dive and access to all of our recordings, which go back to January, 2020 when we did our very first deeper dive. I wonder what that sounds like now. I can't, I will never listen to it again.

Leah: I don’t ever just don't. I totally agree that it is just a treasure box of so many wonderful conversations we have, so I just highly encourage everyone, especially like. Aspiring IBCLCs or people who are new in the field, you will feel like, okay, I am with my people. Even if you're listening to the recording, 'cause you'll start to see that like, oh my gosh, I have that same issue. Oh my gosh. I feel that same way. And again, this is kind of our. Our contribution to trying to build community and keep community as a big part of the I-B-C-L-C profession. But I also had a great time having this discussion today. It was so fun to go through these. I felt like it was so cathartic and reflective and I feel very inspired to go out and do my job tomorrow. So I really appreciate you taking the time to ask us these questions. Thanks so much.

Annie: Thank you so much.