76 | Letting go of the outcome

Annie: Well, hey there, Leah.

Leah: Hey Annie.

Annie: How are you doing? You know, I'm good. It's a new year, which means for my insurance clients new deductibles, fun and good times with the Aetna billing. But it's all right. I'm working my way through it. I'm trying to be zen about it and give myself grace and be nice to myself in this whole process. So how about you?

Leah: Oh, man. Well, it sounds like we're in a lot of the same place. I know. It's always the new year feels like, well, Aetna always changes things in the new year anyway. Or the billing. I mean, the coding seems to change every year, but January always just feels like, yeah, so full of. All the things that we need to adjust and change and da, da da. I feel like that's what most of my extra or lack thereof, extra time has been focused on. But like you, I'm really this year trying to take a more relaxed approach and like just remember that, like what are the things that are most important to me and like coming back to those and really trying to focus on what am I doing to de-stress, like constantly, I'm thinking about that all the time. Like, okay, this is really amping me up. Okay, what am I gonna do to de-stress? What am I gonna do to de-stress? You know, lots of hot baths have been taken in January. Lots of walks, lots of deep breathing. All the things to just keep it as low key as possible. Cuz my body is saying, please don't stress this out anymore. ,

Annie: I hear that. I've been doing more exercise classes than I have been doing and that has actually, like I was reading about exercises like you don't wanna trigger cortisol, especially at my age and like what you're looking at is like, you don't wanna like push yourself like I used to love to do those. Like I'm gonna like totally just kill myself and be exhausted and like I feel great and everything hurts. And I'm like, no, that's actually not what I should be doing cuz that's gonna increase my cortisol. So looking for exercise that feels challenging, but also feels good. And so I have found that and that's been really great. Going to bar three studio classes and it's so awesome. But it's like, I feel, at the end, I feel that endorphin rush. I feel tired like I feel like I've done something, but like throughout, I never feel like I'm like, I can't do this. I just feel like, yes, I have that. More of that like this, this is hard and I'm gonna keep going cuz it feels good to keep going. So yeah.

Leah: Not like you're just exhausting yourself. I'm gonna crash at the end of it.

Annie: Yes. And I feel like this is like a metaphor for our topic today. Letting go of the outcome

Leah: It does really feel like we're just bleeding right on into that.

Annie: So we're talking today about letting go of the outcome and what that means. , as Lee and I were brainstorming this episode, it's just the idea that like, our clients are the ones who are gonna determine the path that we're taking, not us. And what, and the thing that I was told when I first became a lactation consultant was, I can't want it more than they want it, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. And so, having seen that playing out in practice it is a big part of the job is, is managing my own expectations. Yeah. About, or my own wishes about what's gonna happen. What does that look like for you, Leah?

Leah: Yeah. This has definitely been something through my whole journey that I've had to keep working on because I feel like sometimes we just get so emotionally invested and, you know, we might be so excited that, like, I think, you know, if they follow this care plan, I just really feel like things are gonna go well and then the care plan that we came up with together ends up. Not working out well or not being something that they, once they started it felt like they could continue or something changes for them and it's like, oh, you know, I really felt like we were gonna head into this direction. And then, and then the path turns for them and it becomes this kind of like emotional. Event for you cuz like you you know, kind of have this vision of how this will all play out. Because we kind of have to do that. We kind of have to think through, okay, if they do this and we do that, da da da, this is how my expected play out. Obviously, we're all gonna be watching and seeing what happens, but it's like, whoa, okay now my brain has to do a 180 here and like maybe be guiding them in a completely different direction or realizing that the journey has changed for them and like being able to support them through that. And it is hard to get really disconnected cuz then I feel like we're not, we don't show up the same if you're just like, I am a robot and I'm gonna disconnect all emotion from this situation. But I really have leaned on some teachings I think from, my time in the Leche League. It's very, remember people talking about like, this is not your baby. This is not your baby, this is not your baby. Which is really helpful because I'm like, this is their journey. It's not my journey. I'm just here as like the path, like guider, where you wanna go. I'll show you kind of that direction and what, what that path might look like. You know? Not my journey, not my baby. , , and that really is a, is something that I've leaned on quite a bit it still is, it's so, it can be so emotional sometimes, especially when, you know, things aren't going as planned or something else comes up for the family and their hopes and dreams are kind of not, are kind of crushed, you know, and then you're like, wow, this is emotional.

Annie: Definitely. And I feel like there's multiple reasons that can happen. So there's. There are the times where you're like doing, like what we talked about in that deeper dive with Susan Howard about watchful waiting, where you're doing watchful waiting and like, we don't know where this is gonna go. We're just kind of paying attention to what's happening. And in those situations, I feel like it's easiest for me to not invest in what the outcome is gonna be. And then there's the cases. You've made a recommendation and then for whatever reason, the parents are not following that recommendation and it could be for multiple reasons. Yeah. Like it could be like it's just logistically challenging or their doctor told them something else or they, you know. Or whatever it is. Um, yeah, there's so many things. You followed other advice. There's so many other advice and I feel like in those cases that's where it's hardest for me cuz I feel like, no, I really worked really hard to learn everything I needed to learn to present you with something. And I also tried really hard to make it something that you could implement and that would fit into your life. And. That's where, you know, I really, when they come back to me and they're like, okay, I didn't try anything you talked about, and I'm still struggling to really. Take myself out of it. Very consciously and deliberately, like, yeah. Okay. Let me just treat these people like brand new, like start, start over. We're gonna, we have to start over. Start. I have to start over. Yeah. The ones that, and then the ones that really like make me. Sad are the ones where we had a plan, we followed the plan, and then something like an illness or emergency.

Leah: Yes, they get mastitis. I've had a few feelings where like the whole family comes down with covid or something, so like all their appointments had to get canceled and all, you know, everything got derailed and mom's milk supply tanked and it's just like, no.

Annie: Those are the cases where I feel like I'm grieving with them. Yeah. You know, and I've even shared that with like, said like, I'm really, I'm sad about this. This is so too, this is really heartbreaking. Yeah. And try to like validate them. You worked so hard and I see what happened and I do find it is really powerful. This is something I was told not to do in the lecture league, but like I do it in my private practice is to really tell people. You really did everything that you could and none of this is your fault. And sometimes you just really have to say that I've had people like I say that and they're like, thank you for saying that. Yes, they do believe that and they just need to hear somebody else let them off the hook.

Leah: Yeah. I always tell parents, one of the things I like to remind them is if the mom's just like really beating herself up. Like, I've tried this, I've tried that, I did this, I did that. I, You know, she's just like feeling the weight of like, I've, I feel like I've done everything that everybody's told me. And I'm like, the issue is this is a two person event and like you can do your part a hundred percent. Perfect. But the baby also brings their 50% of this and like we don't have control over everything that they can or will ever be able to bring to the table. And that's really hard truth to face. It's like, yes, we can try, you know, all the techniques we have to, help the baby bring their 50% of the job, but they might never be able to get past 30% and that might mean. What we had hoped would be the outcome won't be the outcome, and validating that like, yes, you did everything and then like unfortunately your little one couldn't. Do all the part that they needed to do. You know, and I think sometimes that really helps them release some of that, like, you know, parent guilt of like, oh, if I had just done more, if I had just done this. And I'm like, you could have done a thousand things more, but you can't control some aspects of this are outside of our control. And I've found that parents have really felt a sense of relief with that. And knowing. Like that validation of like, yeah, you really did all of your part to the best of your ability. And that's awesome and amazing. And also it really sucks when we don't have control over all of it, you know? And that's, yeah, it's devastating to you and I.

Annie: Yeah. And you and I both have teenagers and you also have adult children. Yes. And I'm like, this is a metaphor for parenting. Like, spoiler alert, it's just gonna keep on being like this.

Leah: It's so like, that's why I, especially when they get to be adults because you know, we've really taken the whole, like they're adults now, like, Letting them make their own decisions, you know? And that is so hard because it, like, we're doing all the guidance and giving them information and, and then they make this other choice. And you're like, why did you do that? But then I'm also like, but this is your life. This is not my life. This is your life. Like, I love you and I'm here. , but not my life. And that's so hard. It's very, it's very similar to this, this other part of letting go. Of course, certainly with your own kids it's even harder, but, um, and that's, it's so true. A practice of letting go.

Annie: That's like what we really like sometimes when I think about what is my actual job, like, what is the most important thing I'm here to do, the most important thing I'm here to do is. Teach parents that they have what it takes for their baby to trust them and that that's like, yes. That's what it really comes down to. That whatever is happening around feeding and around lactation and around all of it is like we are building that platform of trust. Mm-hmm. so the parents can trust themselves and the parents can help their babies, trust them with that healthy attachment and all of that. In terms of when I'm talking about the work that I do or like presenting it on my website, for example, I've really stayed away from like, I know how to solve your problems. Like I'll talk about, like, I can help you with these problems and I cannot solve them and not making those promises. I remember when, like a while ago, I did a lot of like trainings on marketing for online businesses, and they were all like, you have to identify the problem and then you have to agitate the problem and then you have to provide that you are the solution to the problem. Yes. And that has always just like never sat with me.

Leah: That doesn't work for lactation.

Annie: What am I gonna be like, okay, you've identified. You can't feed your baby cuz you don't have enough milk. Well, let me agitate that and tell you that. Like, guess what? Your baby could die if you don't feed your baby. Okay, but I could like save your baby from dying. It's like that's really what, like that, that's the end. The end goal is what you're really saying. It's like, , but even like on a smaller level, like making promises like, I don't know.

Leah: Like dissolving nipple pain with your five step approach to latching or something like that. It's like you can't guarantee any of those outcomes. And also you're only the guide, you're not the doer of the things, the doer of the things is the family and they get to choose what things they decide to do. ,, I think also kind of when you think about messaging it, it will also help solidify in your own brain what your role is help you manage these outcomes that we can't control, you know, which obviously we can't control any outcome, but it really helps you manage I guess how you would approach that in your own mind because you know what your role was and you've, provided that message to your client, you've provided that message to your own brain, and it really, I think that piece of it is so powerful.

Annie: Yeah. just like what you said is like, it starts with the very first encounter that they have with us. What's actually happening, and we are telling them the outcome is not what I'm here for. Right. I'm here for you. I'm here for you and your baby. I'm here for this relationship that you're, this new relationship that you have and I'm here too. I wish I could attribute this quote to somebody, but you don't. You wanna be the guide on the side, not the stage. On the stage. Yes. And like, I can't heard that before too. I love that one. It's like, I'm here next to you. I'm right down there with you. I cannot tell you what to do, and I cannot promise an outcome. Then for me to have that energy of like, and the outcome is not what matters to me. And I tell that to people like, I'm gonna recommend this intervention for your baby, but I'm also here if you choose not to do it. Yes, I'm here for you either way. We are gonna be on the topic of messaging. My little segue into this part, but we are doing a deeper dive into messaging at the end of February with messaging expert Dr. Michelle Maser. She has a PhD in communications and she wrote a book called The Three Word Rebellion that is all about finding your message. so it's such good stuff. Her way of talking about teaching messaging is so, applicable and compatible with our ethical obligations as healthcare providers, so I'm really excited to have her come in and talk with us. In depth about like, how can you differentiate yourself in your messaging when it does feel like, it's like, sometimes I'm like, I don't know. My message is, I'm in Queens and I take your insurance. What more do you wanna know else?

Leah: Do you need to know? I am so excited about that talk. Because I feel everything else out there, like you said, is feels very predatory and it feels very like. You know, just trying to win the, the visit, you know, like from a, you know, very monetary, make more money, you know, I just want it to be attracting the people that truly want the service that I can provide. I know a clear message would do that because obviously nobody can see everybody, and nobody's a good fit for every single person out there. And by having that really concise and clear messaging, you'll attract the people that will be your people, the people that will really get you because you've been really open and concise with like your vibe and you'll bring those, those people with, that want those vibes right, into your practice. And I think that's where that messaging can be so powerful. But like, bringing it back to this idea of letting go of outcomes, I think it, it too shows them, like you said, that we're like not here for just end result. We're here for you got a journey ahead of you and like we're gonna go down this path with you. I think that helps to have the messaging clear about that. You know, and I, I'm like already thinking like, ooh, I think there's things that I, I'm gonna wait till after the messaging talk to change anything on my website, but I'm certain there are gonna be things that I'm gonna wanna shift and change. After we have that conversation, I'm really excited about it.

Annie: Me too. I, want to like jump in and make changes just based on us talking about it right now, but I'm also gonna wait until after we talk to her. I do feel pretty good that I don't think I have anything on my website that would be considered bad, but I know there's plenty of things that could be better. Yeah. That taking it back to kind of our journey as lactation consultants along with these clients, I tend to be like, I'm a very much just like, move on, think about the future. , if it's in the past, don't dwell on it, but you are very different from me in this way, and I should be more like you because you're really good about creating those, these like moments of like honoring these difficult cases that you've had and, and you've got a really great tangible things that you do. Can you tell us about your ritual for this?

Leah: Yeah. Well, you know, I am a very empathetic person and I do, know about myself that I get like very, you know, just. Feeling what that other person might be feeling and getting a little too tied up into that. I've worked very hard, lots of therapy working on separation and things. And something that was really helpful for me was to have something like you said that kind of just honors it and then like allows me to have a moment to say like, okay, now I'm letting this out of my head. Like I've thought about it enough. I'm moving on and this little ritual that I do kind of like sets it off into the world. I'm like, okay, so what I did was I got a little box, that I just had randomly from probably Amazon shipment or something. And I decorated the outside just coloring it with all different colors that I felt were representative of, you know, just happiness and joy and caring. So you can kind of see if you. Looking at the video that we have, I have that, box. And then what I did on the inside is I wrote all kinds of words that I would like to have, that person know. Like if I just could never talk to them again, this is the words that I would want surrounding them. Like, you're supported, you're cared for, I release your outcome. You're the perfect parent for your baby. The choices you make are the perfect choices for your family at this time with the knowledge and information that you have and the experiences that you've already had, things that. I just wrote it all over the inside of the box and I cut a little hole in the top. When I have somebody that I'm just like, I've gotta get this situation or, You know the outcome out of my head and give it to them and let it all go. I'll just on a piece of paper, maybe write their initial or something that reminds me of them. and I just fold it up and then I put it in the box and I kind of just like take a deep breath with that and say, okay, now they're off into the world and I don't ever, not that I don't ever think about them, but I'm not gonna hold onto it anymore. I'm like, gonna let it go. And they might still come across my mind and then I'll go, oh yeah, they're in the box. Like they have all the good things around them, and it's been such a powerful thing for me because it also I think it really honors how I process things because I'm different like you said you can kind of say like, oh, well that was in the past, moving on, and I don't process like that, you know?And it's actually like built into this. Like, I have another box which is like my life box when I'm just like, I gotta let go of this in life. Trust me. So many Aetnas in that box. Aetna is written like 4,000 times in that box. But again, it's just been something that, has been a really nice little processing and I'm a very, like, physically processed things and so, I don't know. It was just something I randomly came up with one day. I'm like, I just need to be put these people in a box and like just know that, that everything's okay. It's really helped.

Annie: It's a great example of what they talk about in the book burnout and we'll put a link to the book in the show notes. About how to complete the stress cycle and so, you know, knowing, what works best for you for completing that stress cycle. Like for me. What works is like to just physically let myself decompress or, and also hugs are really helpful for me for completing these oxytocin.
Leah: Oxytocin from that ten second hug.
Annie: I'll even tell my husband, I'm like, I just like need. Like a little bit longer. Just, just five more seconds. Please don't like it. Those things really help me just, release it from my body. Cause I tend to, like, I'm really good at like com compartmentalizing in my mind. But like, if I don't let it go, it does stay in my body and affects me. And so being mindful at least that how you let go of that outcome, how you find, you know, complete that stress cycle and find closure for yourself is gonna. Different for everyone, but it is important to find out what really works for you. There's another book, The Resilient Practitioner, that really goes into a lot of detail about all the different ways that we could have these, they call uncertain outcomes or we just don't know, or sometimes we never know what's gonna happen. Those are the hardest ones. Yep. And you have to like make that for yourself. You have to say, okay, like I sent a follow up email, I heard nothing back from them. Everything's either great or they hate me. It's one of those two. And so saying, okay, one idea that I do and that I think is really helpful is to look back and say, okay, let me reflect on how I showed up for this family, and let me see. Okay. If they love me, let me like celebrate the things that I feel I did well. And if I have that feeling of like, what if they hate me? Well let me reflect and say where are some areas where I can do better? Because you can always find a place where you can do better. Like it's no reflection on your skill level. To think about how you can do things better.

Leah: None of us are perfect. None of us, like end of story period. Nobody's gonna go in a consult and do it perfectly. So it is so helpful to have that, like what could I learn from this? And then also, what could I celebrate from this?And then, How can I release this? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a good, mentality to have. And like you said, I think I've said this in a podcast not that long ago, but I've been really working with this like idea of imagination that like so much of our worry, so much of our stress comes from things that we are imagining and like, so when I have that thought, like, oh my gosh, they probably hate me cuz I remember I said this and I could have said it differently. That's probably the one thing that they thought about the whole entire time and never called me back because of it, you know how our brains do. And so I will challenge myself to say like, can I think of one? If that's gonna be the thing that's like, feels so big in my head, like, can I think of one other but positive thing and I'll just like, make myself think. I wore deodorant that day so I didn't stink in their house. Like that might be the only positive thing that I could come up with. But it might be like, you know, I smiled and I showed up the best I could that day, or, you know, like I felt like I really gave them a lot of information, or I really opened their eyes to other possibilities. I mean, it could be endless, but like, if you're in that place of like, I just can't let go of this person, I'm. Spinning and negative, like I bet this has happened. I bet that's happened. Especially when you don't know the outcome. Cause I think that's like, where it really gets tough is like, just see if you could challenge yourself to come up with some one positive thing that you could, even if it's just like the bears minimum, like I showed up on time, you know?

Annie: Yeah. It could be something like that make a list, at the time when you're, at a time when you're feeling good about. Make a list of 10 things that you are like right now. These are 10 things that I feel like I really do well, and then if you're like in the depths of despair, you're like, I don't do anything, well be like, wait, wait. Past made a list and I'm gonna make myself pick something off this list and I'm gonna remind myself that there's a time in my life where I thought I was good at this. Yeah. And if it was true, then it's probably true now.

Leah: So a hundred percent. I love that. Yeah. And just remember like all these things that we're talking about doing, as people, you know, Annie of, I have been doing this. 10 plus years working with families. These are the things that I wish somebody had told me on year one and two to start doing. Then it's only been in the last couple years when burnout really set in and I keep thinking like if I had learned some of these strategies, Long ago, you know, would I have not felt quite so burnt out, not felt mm-hmm. Quite so burdened by 10 years of people that I'm like, the weight is all on my shoulders. If I had been actively releasing and actively challenging my. Imagination on these outcomes. You know, those kinds of things. I'm like, ugh. So to everyone starting out, and even those that are been in this a long time alongside Annie and I, it's like, don't forget that there, you gotta protect yourself from burnout. I almost feel like it's like wearing a raincoat. You just have to put it on. Every day, all day long so that you guys can keep being the awesome lcs that you are and the beautiful people that you are. Just giving this world so much, we have to make sure we keep taking care of ourselves. Putting that protective layer on in all these different ways that Annie and I have been describing today.

Annie: Absolutely. I'm gonna have to do some of that for myself today cuz I've had a, had a tough month. But I love having these conversations. If you enjoy these conversations, come to a deeper dive. They're just like this. Only you're there too. Which makes it better. And we have some great experts lined up for this first part of 2023. and even just sharing this episode, if it resonated with you, tell somebody about it. , we love this community. We love hearing from you and we love seeing your faces at the deeper dive. So we hope you're there.

Leah: Yes, definitely. We'll see you guys all very soon.

Annie: And until then, bye.

Leah: Bye.