72 | Working with Pathway 3 Interns

Leah: Hey there, Annie.

Annie: Hey Leah. How are you?

Leah: I'm doing great. Great to be back with you. I'm so excited to start another season of lactation business coaching.

Annie: I know, I don't think we've ever started this late in the fall, but September was really busy for both of us. Especially because we spent basically every second together at the USLCA conference.

Leah: Yes. Oh my gosh, that was so fun. I was just like on a high the whole time, cuz we got to have all kinds of just social time, but also learning time together, and then we both got to support each other when we were speaking at the conference. Both of us got a chance to speak, which was super fun, and a little nerve-wracking.

Annie: I loved your talk. Leah. Leah talked about it was pandemic and other disaster-proof your private practice and I was taking notes during it. At one point I was like, I had opened up my policies and procedures documents, I was like, I've gotta change this. I'm not ready. I'm not ready for a disaster and it was really good. It was so helpful and you had woven all these like personal stories, but it was also super researched about actually why you should do this stuff and how to do it. I thought it was so good.

Leah: Aw, that's so sweet. Yeah, I was thinking about it when I proposed the topic. I was like this isn't like super fun, exciting topic. but you know, It's one of those we need to talk about this because it's just one more way that we can ensure that we're here to support the families we wanna support as if our business is ready for anything. Hopefully, that could come our way. I loved your talk. It was so inspirational, but also I really got why these different messages we hear in the world of lactation that we think, Oh, that's just, that's a great message. We should be saying that. And you're like, Wait a second. I never realized the impact of fed is best or breast is best or all these different sayings. And you had some really funny things to say too, which I love that because it really helped break it up and make it also funny, lIke the NyQuil chicken thing, it took me. So I was just laughing about that for so long.
But even somebody after that, I had taken the class with was like, what was that thing she said that about thought terminating cliche. I was like, yes, that is it. It was so funny because I was like things you never think you're gonna walk away from lactation conference talking about, or these like, you know how different marketing messages stop our thinking and I was like, whoa, that's so crazy. It was such a good talk really, Annie. It was phenomenal and everybody walked out of there just blown away and hopefully, you'll be changing the face of lactation promotion here on out.

Annie: Oh, thanks. I put a lot of work into it and a lot of research. I'll put some of the links for my references in the show notes because there were some podcasts that I drew from that talk a lot about these like coercive marketing and how you can cause harm with your messaging. Which is really what it was about. I had so much fun giving it, I was so nervous. It was also at 9:00 AM and I was like, be ready, gotta be ready. I had a good time. It was a really receptive audience and I went to a lot of sessions. I was trying to think about which ones really stood out to me the most. I went to see Naisha Killings present about the melanated mammary atlas, which was so good.

Leah: I went to that one too.

Annie: That one was great because she had us doing interactive case studies and like really things. And she had scripting that was really fun and interactive. Then listening to Dr. Zita Lewis Johnson talk about jaundice was great. That was the last session I went to and she just is so good at putting the focus back on health equity and promoting that kind of informed decision-making and really working with people. But the session that I think I liked the most honestly was Erica Dudley. So Erica is the host of the Leveling Up in Lactation podcast, and she did this talk about how to retire, worn-out sayings that you might use. It was about clearing your cash of like cliches that you use and it was also really interactive. She was really funny and we all had, like in the room, we were like, I agree. It was like really validating to be like, yes, I don't like that, or then to be like, why do I say that? I actually never thought about why I said that and she just had a great way of presenting. I really enjoyed that session and I enjoyed meeting her too.

Leah: Yeah. She was so funny and fun to be around. So it was nice to meet so many people from Facebook or different things that we've done together, but we've always done, very business. We've been like doing a podcast with somebody or having them on a deeper dive or something like that. Then to have them like just socially just hang out and you're like, Oh gosh, you're so cool to hang out with it. It was really fun to get to interact with so many people. I went to so many great sessions and some that we both went to, but I always love to hear Susan Howard and her take on bottle refusal and bottle feeding stuff. That was one of my favorite sessions and I've taken it before. But she's always like adding new things and it's something that I encounter so much in practice. So it's just was so like tools that I can put into use right away. I really loved that aspect of it. I was taking notes like crazy cause I was like, yes, do that. So it was nice to have so many applicable things.

Annie: I didn't go to Susan's session this time. It was conflicting. I will always want to hear what Susan and Rachel have to say about bottles becasue we teach so differently. And I feel. They're just both so expert and skilled and I was sad that I missed those sessions, but you can't do them all.

Leah: I know.

Annie: They showed the Chocolate Milk documentary and had the panel with the filmmaker.

Leah: That was so good. I was able to go in for that one and I have seen the documentary a couple of times already, but they had an additional portion of it that had never been seen before. We were seeing it, which was like some updated updates on the people that were in it, their lives and where they were at now. That was really cool and to get to see a whole nother side of the documentary from that perspective was great. So neat to hear from the people who that made the documentary and then who starred in the documentary and like their perspective. I was like, oh, we're with movie stars. This seems so cool. It was really neat to hear their perspectives on things too. It was awesome. The conference and whole was just really good and the first in-person conference, so many people had been to, so the energy was just like, everybody was just like, we loved everyone and we're so happy to be together and like I love that. It was awesome.

Annie: It really was. Now we're back to reality.

Leah: I know. Back to real life and like brain switching, I feel like you and I both worked really hard on our presentations, so we pushed back podcasting and deeper diving and all the things because we were like, we're gonna do really good at these sessions. So now we are, you know, okay. Ready to start on the next venture, which is getting back into our podcast and getting back into deeper dive. Back into real life because over the summer I had something that changed for my business is I added on a Pathway three intern where I'm the primary mentor and that was a first for me, which is going really well. It took a lot to figure out if it was something that I could even take on though.

Annie: I am impressed that you did that because I, to this day am yet to have the courage to be a primary mentor for Pathway three. I've had people in Pathway three get some of their hours with me, and that's been great and I've loved that. But I'm very intimidated by the whole idea of taking responsibility for someone's clinical education so completely and I'm thrilled to hear that it's going well. What's been surprising to you so far on this journey?

Leah: Yeah, I think it's just like the amount of just organization that you have to have around it. I think that was what has always kept me from doing it because I was like, oh, there's just so many pieces. You gotta keep it all organized and you gotta make sure that you feel confident they're gonna be completely trained by the time they're out of your tutelage. You know? So it was like, oh man, I really need to have a system to this or some kind of plan around it. That's still cultivating since it's my first time. You know, It's like, oh, I thought this was how it was gonna go and now I'm like, okay, tweaking things and figuring it out. But the other thing is I really hope and we keep talking about like just having more conversations around like doing this because I feel like up to this moment until I really started digging in, there really isn't a lot of resources out there for understanding how to be a primary mentor and understanding what it all entails. Like you read that document from ebowl c and I don't know, it reads in circles sometimes. It was more guidance around that is definitely needed. Which, you know, I know promoted us to be like, who can help us? Like, get some people around that can help us.

Annie: Because when you brought it up and you were like, I just I really wish there was something out there, I was like, oh wait I know of one because I guess a year and a half ago I did the lactation private practice essential course, which like a lot of trainings in it. One of them was called Working with Pathway Three Mentors by my colleagues here in New York City, Allison Walsh and LaShonda Dandrich. They're both IBCLCs and along with Patricia McGuire, they started the Lactation Learning Collective. They're so amazing because they do these like book clubs and they'll do these clinical sessions. So if you're a Pathway three mentee, you come to one of their sessions and get hours that way or get some of your educational hours. So they did this training about working with Pathway three interns, they only have an hour. They just barely scratch the surface. It's great information, especially if you're just starting out and it's available on my website. We'll put the link in the show notes, but then we're like no, we actually wanna talk to them because they're also super fun to talk to. So we're having them on a deeper dive on October 18th.

Leah: Yes. I am so excited about this because I have so many questions, you know, you can read through all these things, you can take courses and everything, but it's always so great to be one on one, so to speak, but not really one on one. Have that one-on-one interaction where you can ask questions and just learn and a little bit more getting what you need to know out of it there. I'm just super excited about this because like I said, I'm still tweaking my process and getting the hang of all of this since this is my first go-round and I just can't wait to learn more. I can't wait to get to meet them too virtually, but get to meet them.

Annie: I think between the two of them and also with Patricia, who won't be on the deeper dive, but she runs the Lactation Learning Collective with them. I think between the three of them, they've worked in every single practice setting that you could possibly think of so drop-in support group, virtual support group, private practice, hospital, pediatric practice. , I forget if I'm leaving anything out, but if, if I did, they've done it. Throughout all of those they've had interns, so it's really great because there's other people that do great pathway through mentorship, actually here in Queens. Paula Utila is one of them, and she got U S L C A award for her Pathway three program. Paula is such a gift to the world out there in Jamaica, Queens. Her work is all hospital-focused, so we should have her another time to talk to the people that have hospital practices too. But Allison and LaShonda are gonna be telling us how to supervise these Pathway three interns in a private practice setting. So like what you and I do where we don't have any institutional backing, it's really just us and there's so many things that come up there like pulling research articles, like how do you find those? If you wanna have a meeting, where does it happen? You know? Lots of things like that.

Leah: Yeah. Things that I'm figuring out on the fly, but hopefully will speed my learning as I get to be in that session with them, and I'm really excited about that. I hope that you all will join us whether you've just contemplated having a pathway three mentee or if you already have one and you're just like, I wanna tweak my process. I wanna make this a better experience for them and me because I think it's such a rewarding experience. I guess that's the other thing I wanna say, surprisingly I love teaching but I, you know, intimidated and everything was like, oh, this doesn't seem like it's gonna be as much fun as I thought but it's actually been a great experience so far. And the person that you get to work with, I think makes a big difference and I'm sure they'll talk about that too. But I really have just been pleasantly surprised with it. So if you're just thinking about doing this, I think it's such a great session to be in with us so that you can really get an understanding of what it entails so that you two can share your vast amount of knowledge because we need to really pull in more people learning in this setting. I think the private practice, you just see so much that it's such a valuable setting to learn in and you to much of the whole continuum of breastfeeding, I guess is what I wanna say, is it's just so valuable.

Annie: I think if you're gonna do private practice, Pathway three really is the only pathway that makes sense. You and I were both Pathway One is LeLeche League leaders, and we've talked about this on the podcast before, I was so unprepared for private practice when I passed that exam because of how little hands on training that I'd gotten. I think that's part of what stops me from wanting to do Pathway three mentorship, is that I don't have a model myself for what that looks like because I didn't have that. I had to piece it together for myself and I did. But. I just don't know even what it looks like. But yeah, it didn't feel prepared with Pathway one and I've heard Pathway two can be expensive. So Pathway three really does give you the most preparation, like you said, for everything from prenatals all the way through weening.

Leah: Yeah, it really does. It really does. I think, getting more private practice LCs out there excited and also not so intimidated by the prospect of doing this and how mutually beneficial the whole thing can really be and also just like a great life experience to get to share your knowledge and teaching. Even if you don't think of yourself as some, like teacher and you're gonna go do presentations and stuff like that, you don't have to be. You can just be doing your job and sharing the information and things that you know how to do, and it's gonna help our profession altogether. I'm so excited. I hope you all will join us.

Annie: I hope so too. We'll put a link to register in the show notes. It's going to be recorded, so if you can't show up live, you will get the recording. But I will tell you, if you come live, you get to talk to Allison and LaShonda because it's not gonna be just me and Leah talking to Allison and LaShonda. We want to hear from everyone who shows up at the lives. So it really is, our deeper dives really are conversation. They're meant to be participatory and I know having had a taste of in person it, it doesn't quite compare to sitting around a table and sharing a physical meal with another person, but we really feel like we're the next best thing.

Leah: Yeah, definitely and accessible. It's so hard to get to all the conferences, but here you get to have the experience but not have to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to fly across the country.

Annie: And connect with people so that when you do go to that conference, you can make your deeper dive internet friends into your real friends.

Leah: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. All right. It's so great getting to talk with you today, Annie, and I'm so excited to be back at it our next season of podcasting and deeper diving is well on its way now.

Annie: It sure is. Until next time, it was so good to talk to you, Leah.

Leah: Same here. Talk to you soon.

Annie: Bye.

Leah: Bye.