100 | Sleep Coaching with Shelly Taft, LPN, IBCLC

Annie
Well, hey there Leah.

Leah
Hey there, Annie, how are you?

Annie
I'm great. We have a special guest on with us today, Shelly Taft. We just finished up our deeper dive into sleep coaching with Shelley, and we just still wanted to chat a little bit more about with her. It was so much fun. We had great attendance, and this is kind of our time to talk, just as Annie and Leah about how we feel about all of like, a debrief, a little debrief. It was so great to hear how you navigate those nuances of managing lactation and sleep coaching. And I guess, like another follow up question I have for you is like, how do you take care of yourself in all of this? And not just to like as a business owner, somebody in private practice, but like, but also just, I can imagine that carrying the weight of people's sleep problems, and like you said, you're doing four weeks of messaging, really intense follow up with them. What are some of the ways that you help take care of yourself and all of that.

Shelly
It's going to sound like a lot of the corny stuff that a lot of people roll their eyes about, and I did, too, but works actually, like I journal and meditate every morning. I used to, like, get up and go to the gym at 4am and just hit the ground running. And I have found, through trial and error and therapy, that I function best when I have a slow morning where I wake up, I wake up early. Still, I wake up like four or five, but I lay I sit in bed and I drink my coffee and I journal, and then I meditate, and then I color, and it just sets up the pace for the day, so that even if it is a busy day, because I started off nice and slow, the rest of the day continues to feel nice and slow, whereas when I was getting up and like hitting the gym, my cortisol levels were like, flying up, and then the rest of the day I'd be like, on guard.

Annie
I know Leah has a great morning routine as well. Like your version of the slow start is all the bird watching that you do.

Leah
I'm just turning old. They say when you start, like, really paying attention to birds, you're probably in your midlife. And I'm like, Yep, I'm 50 this year. Thanks so much for noticing.

Shelly
Do you have the Merlin app?

Leah
Oh yeah, yeah.

Shelly
I do bird watching too.

Leah
I mean, I've got the binoculars. I'm like, out hiking every morning, finding my little birds that we have made friends. We find each other. It's a whole thing. I'm yeah, I'm lost in it. But also, I'm sure that as you've had this evolution of, like, recognizing the things that kind of bring your nervous system in line, which is like, an evolution that I'm on too is like, same, like, thinking, go, go, go. Like, race to the finish line is the plan of the day. And, like, totally revamping. Like, even when I start my consults, I've pushed everything back to 10, which seems like, like such a luxury, like, I just don't do anything till, I mean, any work stuff till 10, because of this very fact that, like, I'm noticing that it helps so much with my nervous system. But I'm wondering how much that, then, like, has played into how you've shift some things with your families and like things that you're talking about. Because I feel like I'm bringing in more and more, like, nervous system regulation stuff, the more I'm seeing like, Whoa. Okay, this is powerful. We should be paying attention to this, even though I've heard it for like, so long. Isn't it funny how you like and then when you experience your yourself, you're like, hey, these people actually know something. They're onto something.

Shelly
100% and I think that getting certified as a sleep coach is what kind of brought my attention to that. Because in both trainings people Mia and Lindsay hoax training, there is a big section on regulation, not just for for the baby, but for the parents too. And so I was learning a lot like, of ideas of like, how to self regulate myself, and then helping my family self regulate too. And I always like, kind of do like, Oh, you're gonna roll your eyes at me, but try some deep breathing and and then a lot of times they do come back and they're like, dude, that worked. And sometimes they're kind of mad about it because they're like, that worked. It also has made me a better provider when it comes to boundaries. Like, last year was the first year that I was like, I'm I'm not checking messages on weekends or responding to messages on weekends anymore. And for me, that was always, I was always on call 24/7 and now I'm like, I'm off. I'm completely off on weekends. Now that has helped a lot. Where, you know, I have to make it very clear to the families if, if you message me on the weekend, I'm not going to respond. But then by the time Monday comes around, I feel like I've gotten a break. And then when I do open up my message and see those blocks of text from the sleep client, I'm I'm regulated, and I can be like, Okay, let's, let's focus and just get this answered. Versus when I was answering messages seven days a week, I'd open it up and just have that feeling of dread when I'd see, like, the blocks of text.

Annie
I know that feeling of dread is like such a like, constant bug bear in the work that we do. I think it's so funny you said that about like the deep breathing, because I recently had somebody suggest if you do a extra long exhale, your body knows that it's safe and it'll like, help you. If you're feeling like, like, a adrenaline surge, like, from stress, which is something I've been dealing with, and I did it, and it worked, and I did actually feel a little like mad. I was like, What do you mean? Like, could I have been doing this my whole life? Like, and I never believed it. And I love to, like, talking about, like, the nervous system regulation. I'm definitely, like, on the same page with you guys about that, because I've been talking lately when I talk about skin to skin, I've been talking about, like, it's good for you too. Like the skin to skin tells your body that your baby is safe in like, a way that your brain can't. And I'm like, listen to me. Like, hold your baby. It helps you. It really does.

Shelly
That's my favorite form of breathing. Is the 4484, where you inhale for four counts, hold it for four counts, exhale for eight, and then you hold it for four and then you started again. That that was the first like, deep breathing, like you that I tried, and it worked wonders.

Leah
It was your gateway breathing technique, that's what gets you hooked. You know, it is really funny, because I am like, so much have rolled my eyes for years because I was like, entrepreneurial vibes, do all the things like, you know that you don't need to sleep. You don't need to do anything other than, like, grind harder and, like, get more stuff done. You know, to do list will get done before anything else, you know, like that kind of mentality. And it's so funny because I'm like, no wonder where I got where I was, but also really annoying that, like, I could have done this all so differently and maybe bypass some of the not fun parts of always hustling, you know?

Shelly
Yeah, the hustle culture is huge, and I have definitely come close to burning myself out. But one of the things I do like about our culture as Americans, because we do, we do have culture, right, is that we're very complementary to each other and we're very encouraging, right? So in general, people in the United States want to see other people succeed and cheer them. We cheer each other a lot, even if it's just yelling at a compliment to a street. And I did not realize that that's not so much the norm in other countries and other cultures, that a lot of other cultures, especially in Europe, are more reserved, and they don't compliment each other as easily as we do, and it's weird to like, make small talk, and they're more reserved because they're afraid of failure, a lot more than people in the United States, where we're encouraged to take the risk, we're encouraged to be the risk taker. And that can very easily snowball into the over hustle culture, where you do burn yourself out taking that risk and trying to make it work, and so taking a step back, and for me, it was my husband who was like, can we talk about this? Because you're smoking at the ears, you're so burnt out and crispy by the end of the day. And it wasn't something that I was necessarily seeing on my own. It took someone that I loved and that loved me and supported me to say something. And he was the one that was like, Can you, can you please stop checking messages on weekends, because I just want to see you get a break. And that was nice that I have, you know, husband like that that is able to call me out when I need to be called out.

Annie
I had the same conversation happened in my house and where my husband was like, I'm worried you're gonna die, like, you never stop and you're not happy. And I had to really revamp a lot of things that I was doing, starting with getting my weekends back and just making that a non negotiable for myself to be like, it doesn't matter, like, whatever I think I want to do, or whatever I think I want to get done, does not matter as much as my rest and being with my family, but it is really hard because I do like to get ahead of things. You know, fighting against my own self, my morning routine, I also like a slow start. I like to have time to myself when I first wake up, and I do all of the puzzles of The New York Times. I do Wordle, I do connection, I do the mini I do the full crossword, and I do spelling bee. I save Spelling Bee for last, because sometimes it takes me all day, but I do all of those every morning. And it really like it's like a massage for my brain, because it's like, it makes me feel like I'm doing something, but I really enjoy it. It's fun. It has it has no state at all, like I'm the only one that knows if I succeeded or failed, and it's just like, but I also feel like I did that, like it's so satisfying when you get the crossword and it tells you to. It so, you know, letting myself be like, I am going to start the day with play and not with my task. Let's not save that for the end of the day. Like, let me get let me have my dessert first.

Shelly
Don't even check your email. I turn my email notifications off. I also do like an affirmation card of the day, and then I pull a tarot card of the joke that I just like to like, what is it telling me that I need to know today? And then, Annie, I do have you to thank a lot too, because I had a lot of guilt over not answering messages on the weekends, because it was always like, my clients need me. What if there's an emergency? But then I hear your voice in my head saying lactation consultants are not emergency providers. And I was like, Yeah, of course, Amy is right. Like, if there's an emergency, they should be calling their pediatrician, or 911, not me, right? So that's when I was able to, kind of like, let it go.

Annie
I need to listen to you. Because I did decide maybe six weeks ago. I was like, You know what I'm going to do every morning is, I'm gonna meditate just for two minutes, two minutes I could do like, I could definitely meditate for two minutes. And I'm like, This is gonna be how I'm gonna, you know, establish this new thing that I'm gonna do for myself. Guess how many times I remembered that I wanted to get up and meditate for two minutes at the beginning of the day? One time I did it once. I was like, that was amazing. And then I then weeks went by and I was like, Oh my gosh, I forgot that I was wanted to do this, so I need to follow your lead of like, just doing it.

Leah
It's all about habit stacking. That's what I have found.

Shelly
I use habit nest. Have you heard of that habit?

Annie
No, what's that?

Shelly
It used to be just books. I had all their books, then they switched to the app, but they do like you can pick different habits that you want to develop, and one of them is meditation. Then there's like a gratitude habit, there's like a morning habit, there's like fitness habits, but I like it because it just starts you off very slow, and it builds on it. So it's not like, Okay, now you have to jump in and, do you know, 15 minutes of meditation, five days a week, because we're going to feel, we're going to feel at that, but it's like, okay, we're going to start with, like, a two minute meditation, and we're going to start with two days a week, and then it builds off of that, so that you're less likely to fail, right? And then you get frustrated, because that's what I do. I'm a perfectionist, so if I don't do it right, I tend to like, I'm not going to do it. If I can't get it perfect, I'm not going to do it. And that's something that I've been working on a lot, like not letting my perfectionism get in the way of my progress. And I do bring that up to families a lot too, now that I'm working but that might be something to check out.

Annie
We'll put a link in the show notes habit nest. I That sounds really appealing to me. I would like more good habits. I would like to make my mornings even more chill than they are. And, yeah, I think, like following up with this whole like, just how great that conversation was about incorporating the sleep coaching, I guess, like sleep is an area, like I just feel so defeated around it with those questions, especially when I feel like I only have lactation answers for you. Like I can't argue with biology to a certain degree. So I think it was encouraging for me to hear that you have people that actually like you're doing it, like you've figured that piece out, or you're like, that's navigatable and not like a roadblock, like it feels like for me.

Shelly
Yeah, and I think just, you know, for those out there who don't want to do sleep consults, but maybe want a little bit more knowledge to give to families, you know, reading some of those books I recommended reading the gentle sleep book, or the no cry sleep solution, because there are, like, quick little tips that you can give. Like, the most common is, you know, he won't sleep unless he's sleeping on top of one of us, right, which is totally normal, but we go over, like, okay, when is the best time to transfer him? You know, 15 to 20 minutes after the baby falls asleep is when they enter their deepest sleep state so they're less likely to wake up when you transfer them. How do you transfer them? Do you just move them off your body and put them down? They're going to wake up. Hold them close, put them down, butt first, then slowly onto their back, and then pat them. And then like wearing the bassinet sheets in in the breastfeeding parents bra for the day so it smells like them. That can that can be helpful too. And in Lindsay hook ways training, she calls these a low hanging fruit, the quick changes that don't take a lot of effort, but can make a difference putting socks on the baby's feet. I had a sleep consult where the baby kept waking up and waking up. And they had an older house, so it was really hard to get to, like, regulate the temperature of their the baby's room. And I was like, sometimes they wake up because their feet are cold. The rest of them are not cold, but their feet are cold. We put socks on that baby, and he started sleeping six hours. Stretching. Sometimes it is like, the simplest, easiest, lowest effort thing, and we always start with that. Even when I'm doing like, a full blown seat console, we always start with the low hanging fruit, because they can make a big difference. And then you don't have to get into all the other things.

Leah
And I think the reminder that you also mentioned, that we talked about first, was like, it's really hard to just leave the I called it a gaping hole. Of like, this is biologically normal and sad for you, you know, but like, I have nothing else to offer, and so I love the idea of like, even if we're not like, Hey, we're gonna be full on sleep coaches and add this into our business and stuff like that, but we can be supportive of, how can we help this family navigate sleep in a healthy and low hanging fruit way without, like, fully taking on and I think it's definitely an area that lactation consultants are facing, like, literally every day. I think I've talked something about sleep, so it's an area that deserves our attention just as much as, like, knowing about mental health and those kinds of things, because, again, all that ties in together, like you so well pointed out.

Shelly
Yes, and knowing where to send families to, like, I would recommend establishing a relationship with the local doula trainings, like whoever is doing the local doula trainings in your area, because you know most, most doulas who are going through The training, and they're getting certified, will do very low fee or free for the first three families, which I have an opinion on that, but that's what they're doing. They're doing. And so, you know, I do have a lot of families where the baby is under four months, and what's going on is normal. There's nothing wrong with what, wrong with what baby is doing, but they need more sleep and they need more support, and they need more support, and they just don't have it. They don't have family nearby. They don't have a budget to hire an experienced night doula or a night nanny, but you can connect them with doulas and training who are willing to work within their budget, and then they can get the support they need, and the doulas get the the certification, because the family will, in return, write them a review. So yes, they're they're working with someone who has less experience, but still, like, they've been through the training. So connecting families with that, like, at all levels of resources that they might need is very helpful. As a latation consultant too.

Annie
That is a great tip. I'm definitely like, gonna go look that up when I get off this call, because I, you know, you said, like, yes, they're working with somebody more experienced, but they're also working with you, or with me, or with Leah, you know, they have, they have another person on the team, so they're not just going to be left with just this one person. I also loved you brought this up, and we'll wrap this up, but I loved that you brought up in a deeper dive, that when you first got started, you paid a mentor to coach you through your first couple of clients, that you had to make sure that you were doing that. I love that so much, and we're never too experienced not to need help anyway, but just to just be so upfront and say, I need this, and I want to make sure that I'm doing this the way it needs to be done. I just, I love that you took that approach, and it's, it's definitely something that, you know, I really wanted to call out on this little After Show podcast as well.

Shelly
Yeah, and she was, like, so helpful, and really helped me learn a lot, because she has so much experience really, like, provided me a lot more education beyond what I learned in the course she's actually in in the UK. So the the time difference was a little bit of a struggle. But I knew going in and and she always made these interesting comparisons between American culture and and UK culture, where she was always surprised when a parent of a four month old would reach out to me, like, Why? Why do you have so many parents with four month olds who want sleep? And it's, you know, cultural differences, right? But it was always so interesting to learn, like, how she approached it, which is based on her experience, because she had an extensive experience, and bringing in ideas that that we didn't necessarily learn in the training, but aligned with the training philosophy of not crying and respecting the biological norm. So I found that extremely helpful and worth every penny that I paid to her. That's awesome. My husband did have a medical event a few years ago, and I had some sleep clients, and I couldn't, I couldn't maintain the care while I was dealing with my husband's medical and it was very nice for me to be able to be able to say, I'm going to send you over to Chloe, and she's going to take over, and you're going to get the care that you need. Because I just, I can't do it right now. And that was really nice too.

Annie
That's grea.

Leah
So great to have that referral establishment. You know, referral relationship already established, too, and you know how she works, so you can feel really confident in referral. It's what we all need with every aspect.

Annie
Definitely. Thank you so much for doing the deeper dive with us and for sticking around for this after show, we'll put a link to your podcast and your. Social in the show notes for the podcast, so people can find you and follow you and refer sleep clients to you. You're on our care plan, so I don't know if anybody ever calls you, but you're getting a lot of people from you. Yes, that's good, perfect. That's all I want, is. I want all of us to be working together. So thank you so much, and we'll see you next month for our next month's deeper dive.

Shelly
Thanks so much everybody.